Amen.

i had a cousin who went to iraq. i was still against the war and unsupportive of "our" troops but his face was always in the back of my mind like so many other young (usually poor, disproportionately people of color) men and women.

this is such a difficult question. i don't even know how i would feel if we got invaded--if some other country actually said "we are here to free you from your facist dictator." i would probably ask myself why instead they weren't just supporting us, so that we could find a way out of this regime. why couldn't we just have been supportive of popular unrisings against Hussein? because the war wasn't really about the well-being of the iraqis, now was is. it is sort of like if the U.S. bombed mexico and claimed in was to help the indigenous people.

Hey... what's your program got against me? I ask it to "remember me" but it seems to have alzheimer's disease.

This forgotten corner of the country used to have (and maybe still does) the highest military recruitment rate in the U.S. It's a family tradition to put in your time with the Corps, and if you're not serving, your brother, or cousin or compadre is. I despise Bush and the Bushistas, and rampant imperalism. Of course. At the same time, I have to be sensitive to my neighbor's and our local traditions.

These aren't bad people, nor stupid ones. They were raised expecting to go into the service, and they did. I support José and Joe and Fred and Judy's son and... want them to return safe and whole. In THAT sense, yeah, I support the troops, doing what I can to get them out of a situation not of their making, and not in their best interests. If they mutiny, I'd support them even more.

i know..the Remember Me box is a flaw i've yet to fix. it bothers me. some kind of cookie issue.

--

you say they are not bad or stupid, but my criticism is not leveled at anyone's morality or intelligence. it is aimed at the public's mindless and unwavering loyalty to a meme that does nothing good and the troops' continued allegiance to whatever they are told (it didn't excuse the SS who were only following orders, nor does it ever excuse a human from making their own decisions), only applies a salve over our own uneasy feelings; one that allows us to avoid really thinking about what the ethical line is between "patriotism" and supporting murder and death in the name of...whatever the (lying liar of a) "president" says they are dying for.

my point is as long as we go "yeah, i support johnny in whatever he's doing over there," we are not truly making a moral weighing of our support, only being shamed or guilted into standing behind "whatever" they are doing. and i dont think they are—as a whole—doing good right now.

When is it more patriotic to call upon humans to heed their own hearts then to "support" throwing them down a black, bloody hole in the name of "Patriotism"? Why doesn't Supporting the Troops mean supporting the very scary and hard and righteous decision to NOT support a heedless and destructive and wrongheaded war?

For me, that's exactly what 'supporting the troops' means. Honoring their lives enough to get them the f#@! out of there as soon as possible.

I don´t support the troops....yet I have had two cousins who have gone to Iraq (and thankfully come back more or less intact, time will tell). Since I know that the "troops" are for the most part not fighting for me or my country, that they are serving a foreign master in a foreign land, I feel no compulsion to support anyone.

Where does that leave me?

Do I hate them?

No, of course not. But I will not be a cheerleader for the "mission" (at least not in Iraq), but who am I to judge a man willing to risk it all for God and Country. I know to many people in uniform (active duty and veterans) to be honest with them and say, "its not you, its the mission". Yeah, I know exactly what that sounds like, but since I am not lying, and they know that I'm not lying, we are left with a silent pause....pregnant with possibilities, but empty none the less.

If supporting the troops means supporting the American Empire last hurrah, then I don't support the troops, the nameless mass. I support the individuals, like my cousin who saw a good friend of his killed by an errant mortar shell.

La pregunta, mi pregunta es:

If you see a man stuck in quicksand, do you help him out or do you berate him because you know that he should have never gone into the swamp in the first place?

Amigos
Let this half-baked Gringo throw in some info, for you to contemplate and decide for yourselves, whether it's about OIL, and the privatization of Iraqi resources or as Naomi Klein puts it "the world's largest YARD sale".
Prior to the invasion Iraqi banks were limited to 30% (ea. bank)to foreign ownership, however after paul breMMer, the bush crime family consigliere arrived, he declared order 39.
All banks can now be 100% foreign owned, with the help of the CPA, a small group of Iraqi elites that were living in the U.S. & England. All State owned corporations are to be put up for sale, telecommunications, sewage, electricity,i.e. They even had the NERVE (bremmer)to want to write the new history books for Iraq, but were met with resistance, and had to back down.
Doesn't stop there compadres, oil contracts or PSA's, product service agreements are some of the most favorable to any oil company, (U.S. oil companies will receive 60% of iraqi profits, for their "investments", the mafia couldn't have gotten a better deal.(google-Greg Muttitt,investigator.
Who's in charge of Iraqi oil(minister), ahmed chalabi, CONVICTED FELON, from Jordan, convicted for stealing money from the bank he ran. Invited to the white house and even put into his position, by the Fuher, GWB.
I would suggest after reading the UNAPOLOGETIC Mexican, the hottest, sickest, and imaginative BLOG on the net, go to (BRASSCHECK tv.com)or google Naomi Klein, about Iraqi the selling off, of Iraq.
I'm out - ADIOS

my point is as long as we go "yeah, i support johnny in whatever he's doing over there," we are not truly making a moral weighing of our support, only being shamed or guilted into standing behind "whatever" they are doing. and i dont think they are—as a whole—doing good right now.

That's where I'm coming from. I empathize with the position so many people are put in which would make them think the military is an ok option--but at the same time--I'm looking at is as in, what do you *think* you're going to do over there? Kiss babies? When you are trained to kill (which is what basic training is), do you honestly think *you're* going to be the magic soldier who never *really* has to kill? I've got lots of family in the military too, and so I don't too self-riteous. So most times, I limit my opinion to telling my kids (even at such young ages) that bombing is bad, shooting is bad, and talking about what happens to the earth, to the ground, to our health when there is wars and violence.

I absolutly DO acknowledge the complications, the intricies of the arguements of the situation--the very real poverty, co-ersion, disrespect, violence and desperation that convinces people to go to the army--I also get very angry some times because regardless of how marginalized our communities are HERE, in the U.S., they are still going into OTHER countries with horrific amounts of power and they. are. using. that. power.

I saw this one youtube video with some brothas harrassing and violating a group of iraqi men with the SAME shit they would have been harrassed with by cops in this country--screaming at them, Why you got your son out of school?? He should be in school not looting with you! that shit made me sick, made me ashamed to be a person of color.

If we can't even walk away from the power of those who abuse us, why should we expect white people (or any other people) to??

you know...for a long time i would say that i don't support this war in any way but i support the troops. i see them as two completely different things. however, i'm finding it harder to say that lately. not all of them, but many of the troops, are actually behind bush and his highly unhinged ideas of what makes the world go 'round.
i think it's crazy that anyone who doesn't agree with him doesn't stand up and say so. refuse to go. refuse to be a part of it. it's taken me a long time to get to the point where i don't care what (most) people think of me. i'll say what i feel, when i feel it, how i feel it. i wouldn't last a day over there, most specifically because i'd flat out refuse to go.
i can almost understand people joining the military and going along with wherever it leads them because they feel they have no other options, but, there are always options.
every moment of everyday is filled with choices that we make. some are not as significant as others but they are there.

"Support the troops" really means "support turning your kid into a psychopathic hired killer because there is really no alternative anyway, there is no opportunity for you so sign up and sell your life away"

Somehow we have to do better. Loyalty is no excuse, we as a society cannot be loyal to a delusion, only continually delusional.