You know, after you posted that call to action, I thought about that because I remembered those years in Spanish class where we'd try to hammer out the difference. I was going to say something to you, and I was going to say "for your family" in Spanish. And I was sitting there for a long time thinking, "para tu familia or por tu familia or maybe I should just say it in English..." And I did the last option, lol.

Being the strange packrat I am, I don't know where my credit card statements are, but I do have my old Spanish notes from high school! *cough* I can rifle through them sometime this weekend 'cause I believe we had a period where we listed basic differences between "por" and "para" that are easy to remember. (I just have a bad memory; I remember the exercise simplifying things at the time.) If I find them, I'll leave them in a comment here.

jeje...i know the feeling.

yeah, sounds good!

and the link i posted at about.com has a page laying out some rules, too. it's not a bad link. it's just that i think it's so much easier to grip it contextually for me.

Sylvia:

I guess the difference is intent and perception.

"Por la familia..." would mean for the family, as in your mother asking you for a favor.

"Para la familia..." would be more "in the name off" the family. Form and custom its what really dictates the use of these words.

Hmm, it's very hard for foreigners here to know when to use either as well, in our case complicated by the fact that we contract "por+a" into "pela" and "por+o" into "pelo", even though sometimes the language requires that they remain apart because they then mean something else. Eh. It's hard on people learning our Portuguese. That and the difference between "ser" and "estar" - I swear I can see their little heads exploding trying to fathom it. I agree with you, it's something that only usage and listening to can fix.

i think what would also be hard for me, lioness, is that it seems there is big overlap in spanish and portuguese...but clearly, they are not the same. i've said it before: if i had another life to do nothing but study languages, i'd love it.

Nezua, I've been reading you for a few weeks now, ever since stumbling upon your fabulous posts on the white lens, and I thought I'd say hello, finally, and add that por and para forever confuse me as well. I think I need the same thing...to hear Spanish in use more often. I could speak the language so much better when I heard it everyday and had to use it to communicate...

Raine, it's good to see you. Hi!

I've heard it both ways here in Texas (por la raza and para la raza), for what it's worth, but there may have been contextual nuances that went over my head. 'Por' vs. 'para' was the bane of my Spanish-language study even through college so I'm paying close attention. Now that I'm helping my kids learn Spanish, I'm trying to make sure we've got the rules down.

Rafa, I appreciate that definition from your own understanding. These help.

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yeah, kcb, that is what confused me. i've seen and heard it both ways, too! not so different than inglés, tho...such as "i'm here because of my family" or "i'm here for my family" (which could be I'm here to get my family or i'm here representing my family) and many other ejemplos. every time i think i've found something "so hard" in spanish, really, it's no different than many instances in english...just from a new angle.

Hee, I found the old notes and they look similar to what's on the RSS feed! Sorry about that. (I guess I had the "academic Spanish skillz" at the time so it all made sense then. lol)

i definitely appreciate the intent, sylbia.

I've picked up a sense that 'para' has a more temporal sense--more short-term or immediate--while 'por' is somehow deeper, like at a different level of being. So saying "trabajamos por los derechos humanos" is a long-term, fundamental orientation kind of statement... but "trabajamos para limpiar la calle" is a right now this is what we're doing statement.

Here in Nicaragua there are government signs (from the last government) all over the country stating that a given project is "Por el pueblo... para el pueblo"; kind of a government for the people by the people phrase.

That being said, it really does come down to how I hear common usage. It's too easy to trip myself up overthinking.

ah...thanks, NicaKnit!

it sure is easy to trip overthinking...all those hidden bungee cords...

hola mi gente. como te va? not being a native speaker and a guero too boot, I am most often wrong. But that has never stopped me from offering a por o para. for me it is how it flows off my tongue and how it sounds in my mind. Rules be damned. Like I say I am often wrong.

yo soy Horsedooty!

i hear you horsedooty. my only fear in that is that "por" sounds nice to an English speaking ear looking for an equivalent to "for." so i hardly trust that impulse in myself!

Another thought that came to me over the afternoon... Por has connotations of something already having been done, a kind of past-tense, while Para is future oriented.

Por el pueblo = already done by the people (or motivated by their needs)
Para el pueblo = for their future use and enjoyment

Lo hago por usted = you've motivated or compelled me to do something (either indirectly or directly)
Lo hago para usted = I'm doing something so that you'll be affected somehow

I think you can also see this in the difference between Por que and Para que:

Lo hago por que me lo dijeron
Lo hago para que no se quejen

Note how in the one case the subordinate clause is past tense (aha!) and in the second, we've entered the murky world of subjunctive (with intimations of future complaining).

Did I mention I tend to think about this stuff alot? I'm a bit of a language junkie... Anyway, I enjoy this discussion and have enjoyed recently getting to know your blog. I'm usually a lurker but can pretty reliably be drawn into commenting on language posts. Maybe some day I'll venture out into political comments.

hasta luego,

NicaKnit

My 2 cents:

Por el pueblo: a. by the people; b. for the sake of the people, as in, we did this for their/our sake.

Para el pueblo: for the people: destined for the people, to be given to the people: as in, ACORN built this community center [to be turned over to the use of] the people.

ah the magical subjunctive mood! i understand, NicaKnit, me too. junkie for language and all things lingual! comment when the spirit moves, always good to hear ya.

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thanks, cero!

Para NicaKnit: que pasa con "alot"? Que es la diferencia tan "alot" y "a lot"?

ACT, are you picking on someone who can use spanish better than you because they made the ultra-common English faux pas of writing "a lot" as "alot"? i gotta be wrong on this! am i? or is that an honest question? too much.

No doubt your Spanish is better than mine and your English better than alot.

aw no now you made me feel bad! hell...i was just saying. NicaKnit points out some good stuff, and you just jumped on her using "alot" I wasn't talking about me. anyway, we're all good here.

ACT: pues la diferencia es que a veces cuando uno esta escribiendo muy de noche, comete errores, y este es uno bastante comun por como se oye en conversacion. no obstante, espero que el significado fue lo suficiente claro.

Nezua, sos muy caballero, gracias por salir en mi defensa (que fuera o no necesario)

NK

yo se, NK...y de nada, por supuesto.