"and who do not already have family in the country"

This doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't they give greater preference to those who already have ties here?

Because they don't want any of them here. They want to create a revolving door situation, come up, get exploited and then get dump back down again. Family ties means ties that bind, anchors and the Rethugs don't want that at all.

rafa about said it, pat. that's my take on it, at least. seems the obvious one, sadly.

I see your confusion Pat, after all Republicans are all about "family values" but when you spell family "f-a-m-i-l-i-a", well thats different, it ain't WASP enough for you and me....

The family thing seems to almost directly target APIA immigrants, because so many are currently fighting to get their families here, including veterans who were promised that their families could join them when they signed on to fight. There are Pinoy veterans from WWII still waiting for family to join them here.

I think Rafael hits another reason, too, though. They want the workers but only as long as they're "useful," and don't want to give them any reason to stay after that.

This is really a sad situation, and one that upsets me greatly for my own personal involvement in it. I am married to someone in this particular situation, and every day is a constant struggle. My husband has been in this country for almost ten years, and because he is not what "they" would consider a skilled worker, they could do anything to him, it scares me. What I want the government to consider is, what is someone in my position to do, if he is denied this Z Visa, what am I to tell my child when she gets older and wonders why things are so difficult, or if god forbid her father gets denied a Z Visa and deported, what am I to tell her then. What am I to do, my husband is key to our family survival.

It makes me so angry, my husband did not harm anyone, he came here to work, he is a strong person, just like the other 12 Million Illegals in this country, he is a strong individual who came here to make a new and better life for his family, he started a family with me, and has worked twice as hard to build a life in the United States. Family Ties will always be ten times more important than any job. Giving Preference to Skilled Workers over Family Ties is just ignorant. Republicans are making it so difficult to actually do the correct thing, and follow the laws in this country, that they are criminalizing anyone who crossed the border illegally.

I don't know if you know this but it is technically a crime, if you cross the border illegally, and it will take away your oppurtunity to try and get citzenship. My husband and I have been trying to get his papers, and when we went to the lawyer, she told us that there was nothing she could do to help us, because he was caught coming over the border, and that is a crime, she said that unless they do amnesty, he will never get citzenship and even then he may not be able to, depending on the conditions. So again, I ask, what should I do. This country is going to take away my husband, this man I truly love, they are going to take away a good father from my child, all because of what, why do they hate the illegals so much, it makes me sick. I am sorry for being emotional, but this has directly affected my life, and everyone in it for the past 4 years.

Vox - I think you are correct. In fact, that is one of Rep Lofgren pet issues on immigration reform. I hope this pisses her off so she can get the ball rolling for Elvira.

No, Sarah. I don't mind you getting "emotional," I get emotional all the time, and almost always with a lot less reason than you have here.

Thanks for telling that here. Yes...I know that it is an actual crime to cross the border. And I understand theoretically all the things you say, and even that disturbs me greatly which is why i rant. but you tell it from your current and personal situation, and it is, of course, very moving to me. I am with you on all those things, I mean I understand. And agree. And it really makes me upset that so many people are suffering in such a real way, and that we can all just walk around as if it's just another news tidbit, another blur on the screen.

I, too, have a tiny bit of a personal feeler in this, though it is not as pressing as yours, as current as yours is. While my nanita got her citizenship because her nephews joined the American Army, I don't think mi abuelo did, he worked by her side in the fields until he died of diabetes. Even if he did have his card, I just don't see this division as others do. This BORDER this WALL this thing they imagine...it's all land, people are living on land, they are farming and they are walking and they are breathing and wanting to live and be with other humans and do okay for themselves. It is governments that we form that get greedy and fearful and in our infected fearful philosophies, we help these governments, we come together to hoard behind a flag, and in our wanting to destroy the Other and deprive the Other, these walls spring up.

Hang in there, amiga. You have all my good wishes.

You guys are not interpreting this deal correctly. Family immigration is not being tossed out...this is only a shift to points based system. Preference is still given to those who have family ties!!!

For the vast majority of undocumented immigrants this deal is a great opportunity. If it is shot down it might take years and years before another opportunity arises.

Sarah Dijo - If your husband has been in this country prior to Jan 1st 2007 then he will automatically be legalized. The ONLY reason he would not get a Z Visa is if he had committed a felony. So I'm not sure why you would complain. The skilled labor part related to future immigrants and guest workers and does not affect our existing illegal immigrant population.

Huh,

Preference is not still being given to those who have family ties. At least in this new deal, it is being shifted away from that. All articles talking about this issue stress this point. That was a huge part of the deal to the Republicans, from what I am reading. Please show me the part where any article says different.

You also seem to have misinterpreted Sarah's situation. Her husband was caught crossing the border. Anyway, rather than me restating everything in this post and the comments (and the linked articles!) it may be better if you just re read a bit slower?

fyi, "dijo" means "said" in Spanish.

In perhaps the most hotly debated change, the proposed plan would shift from an immigration system primarily weighted toward family ties toward one with preferences for people with advanced degrees and sophisticated skills. Republicans have long sought such revisions, which they say are needed to end "chain migration" that harms the economy.

making more sense? the way we are "interpreting" it?

Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), said the proposal "tears families apart" because a new point system used to evaluate future legal immigrants would value family connections well below employment-related criteria.

and:

The proposed agreement would allow illegal immigrants to come forward and obtain a "Z visa" and — after paying fees and a $5,000 fine — ultimately get on track for permanent residency, which could take between eight and 13 years. Heads of households would have to return to their home countries first.

They could come forward right away to claim a probationary card that would let them live and work legally in the U.S., but could not begin the path to permanent residency or citizenship until border security improvements and the high-tech worker identification program were completed.

make more sense now why Sarah would "complain"? stop talkin out of your butt and think about what all these stipulations mean to a real-life family. (and to the "head" of that household of that family who has to leave them...for how long again?) hell, i don't even have $5000 "+fees" to shell out. and i was born here and have lived here all my life.

but i bet you do?

so, it is plain that this deal does tear apart Mexican American families here already. and it does tear them apart in the future.

these old GOPers fear a cohesiveness between brown americans, they fear TEH SPANISH because they dont understand it and language is power, and they fear it's not American power (whereas we ought just adopt a bilingual stance and teach it to all kids, already and then it WOULD BE). old, white republican mindsets fear White America dying out or being washed over in bronze. and that's what little stipulations and endless police antagonism aimed at fracturing mexican/mexican american culture and family are all about.

The whole plan isn't very good. Immigrants who are professionals and so on can already get in. Hard to afford a Z visa. End result is that laborers etc. will still be undocumented, because U.S. businesses are not going to stop hiring them - they need them.

what do they hope to accomplish by narrowing entrance selection to mexicans with "advanced degrees and sophisticated skills"? i'll tell you. they think the only people who really exist in mexico are illiterate tomato pickers. or that the only mexicanos who want to come here are laborers. this is like their way of purging black voters or minority voters by just by singling out an area that is heavily non-white, or by purging felons. it is a backdoor way to bar the majority of mexicans who immigrate. or so they think! its stupid. as you say, the industries need their laborers. the GOP still doesn't get it, even though they need those "unskilled" or "uneducated" mexicans just as much. the GOPers think they can live at the top of the pyramid with no workers underneath? they really buy their own hype, they really think they done pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and keep themselves there that way!

also, what if we did, magically, get just as many immigrant applications from those with "advanced degrees and sophisticated skills"? these people would come in already educated and well-read and would have done all that in Mexico. so they wouldn't even have the "American" pride of having accomplished any of that in this country. so...they would come here and move right into skilled areas? and what? teach? or write? run for mayor? influence the American power structure at a higher level than the base of the pyramid? is that really what the GOP wants? hell no. they think they have brokered an arrangement that will suit them just fine, when the damn thing—as i understand it now—is totally unrealistic. even in regard to what America needs to keep functioning the way she does.

Yeah, I don't know all the details of this plan or how it will be implemented, but it sounds pretty bad. The treatment of the workers seems to designed to be as dehumanizing as possible (English exams?), and the revolving door system is a nightmare. I was worried they would just be it via a never-ending series of raids and deportations, but if they can set up a system with willing compliance, they won't even need to do that. (Not that I'm blaming anyone who takes what they can get in a bad situation.)

On the other hand, it sounds like maybe at least some people can move towards citizenship, and thus voting? Or does having entered the country illegally preclude that completely? That's what we need, more brown voters.

well, even though john leguizamo said "latinos voting republican is like cockroaches voting for Raid®," sadly, this is no indicator that they will vote Democrat. even though, given most considerations, they should.

WTF with the language requirement, too? There are plenty of citizens who speak no english. And when was a national language established? And I dare say we Murkans would not fare well with reciprocity. Splitting up familial immigration, the very method used to populate North America in the first place? It's all so far from even the most basic human kindnesses.

"Give me your hungry, your tired, your poor I'll piss on 'em"

for clarity's sake, I should have written "method used to colonize North".

"the very method used to populate North America in the first place"...

IDC, hate to say this, but we had North America pretty well populated before Euros "discovered" us, families or no. (Incidentially, it's been theorized that Euro children were the major cause of the American pandemics which wiped out millions of us, as most adults had already survived the "childhood" diseases, and the one or two who made it onto ships would have gone through the whole disease cycle in the six week voyage, e.g., a ship full of immunized adults couldn't sustain a disease like small-pox, which has a two-three week life cycle, over the eight week journey.

That say, as I posted over at Wampum, this bill sucks. But you wouldn't know it from the loudest voices on the Left Blogosphere. Can anyone say crickets?

Yay, I love it when obvious allies self-correct ;-). Good on you, IDC.

I know The Simpsons has gotten pretty bad, but in a recent episode, Marge started using the internet. When she logged on and started exploring, she said, "Wow! I feel like Columbus! I've discovered something that millions of other people already knew about!"

jeje. seems Ill Do Chay caught his thinking/wording just as you were typing, MB.

Yay, I love it when obvious allies self-correct ;-). Good on you, IDC.

Hey, half the times my comments don't go through...Now they go through twice ;-)

haven't had a chance to get all the details on the "compromise," but it looks like it's quite disappointing. yes, it would be a huge improvement for many undocumented immigrants, but on balance, it looks to contain far too much bad stuff to be worth supporting (at least in its current, rumored form - though changes could be made to make it better before it's too late). besides the absurd hyper-focus on "border security," there is little to nothing done to improve the devestatingly harsh 1996 immigration laws, the point-system is no good (instead, they should be making it easier for family members of US citizens and green card holders to come to the US), and to make matters worse, the "temporary worker" system does not include a path to permanent residency, labor protections (for immigrant and US workers), living wage, the right for immigrants to change jobs, join unions or sponsor themselves for green cards. without allowing future immigrants to come to the US and stay long term (permanently, if they want), this is nothing more than writing exploitation and discrimination into law.

although it would be a huge improvement for the undocumented population, it's hard to support a proposal that will likely lead to us being in the same place just a few years from now. this does nothing to ensure the equal, respectful, non-discriminatory treatment of immigrants, those here now and those to come.

although this is really disappointing, it's critical to remember that there still is time to pressure congress to make changes. everyone interested should call their senators and representatives to demand better from them.

senate switchboard: 202-224-3121
house of representatives switchboard: 202-225-3121

yeah, i don't know whats up with that, MB. some weird stuff. mine did that too. its' all this immigrant talk. it excites the govt agencies watching me and their wires begin tripping. glitch in the matrix.

great info, thanks michael. i'll post those numbers up top in a bit.

Nez,

It's important that we all keep in mind that in the next few days, weeks, anti-immigrant groups will take to the phones and call members of the Senate and later mobilize to call Congress in opposition to any immigration reform bill.

We need to do the same. It only takes a minute. You call, you reach a Staffer, you politely state your name and that you support comprehensive immigration reform. They will note your name and say "Thank You". Done!

It only takes a minute, but it's one of the most important calls we can place at the moment.

You make a good point, Tony. We have to combat that wave. Thank you.

that's a great point, tony. the staffers usually tell us that for every 1 pro-immigrant call they receive, they get at least 10 anti-immigrant calls.

Over at Free Republic all the commenters are stating that if this passes and Bush signs it, he should be impeached right now. So the opposition has already started. The GOP is already doing what they do, adding so many poison pill amendments it won't pass. It's a really horrible bill that is only going to get worse.

OH so it's cool to launch a fucking war that kills near a million people...but if a president — ah, whatever. i can't even finish. good. let as many as possible get behind impeaching this pretender to the throne. i won't breathe easy until he's in chains anyway. (dreams...)

and i agree. a horrible bill.

i just wonder...how will we all ever agree on anything anymore? seems since bush the polarizer came into office divisions have grown so deep taht nobody even sees or talks sense anymore in government. or maybe that's just the way it's always been....

So Tony, are you willing to support this bill? Do you think it's better than nothing? I'm curious as to your personal viewpoint. You are probably closer to the situation than me.

I think those backdoor meetings should be videotapped. What kind of wacky tobacco are they smoking? The whole immigration issue has had family unity at the forefront of the debate. I wonder if Kennedy is hitting the sauce again. Amazing, 5 frickin' bills later, a whole year & they still don't get it. FAMILY UNITY! FAMILY UNITY! FAMILY UNITY! I've clicked me heels and said it three times. WTF?

I don't know if it's wise for me to speak up on an issue I admittedly know only a little about, but I heard this news yesterday and my heart just sank. Partly because I can't bring myself to trust that (just about) any law brought about to "deal with the illegal immigrant problem" (please note sarcasm where appropriate) crafted by a majority of rich white men could ever take into consideration the humanity of the people the bill focuses on.

I fundamentally don't understand how this could ever be construed as a good thing. How can a group of people so unconnected, so removed, from the group of people they're directly legislating against actually create anything that will be good? They're not going to think of the people they're talking about as humans or families, as people who help this country, who love this place, who help to make it work. They only think of them as the wide brown masses that threaten the security of their white and privileged seat of power. And the clamoring and hatred pouring forth from so much of the (white) populace only reinforces their misguided legislation.

The nearly complete disregard and lack of respect for the humanity and all of the lives this will affect is sickening.

I honestly don't know. I just know it makes me angry and it makes me sad and it scares me too. Because dammit, we're talking about PEOPLE and most of their side of the debate seems be framed to forget that simple little point.

Again, I have to say I only know a little about the issues surrounding this. But I do know how it affects me emotionally and logically, what my immediate reaction to this news was. I distrust it; it feels empty, hollow, illogical. It doesn't make sense to me.

I hope I haven't spoken out of turn or missed the point. If I have, please accept my sincere apologies.

well, i feel the same as you, celticfeminist. so if you're wrong for thinking and feeling that way, we both are. this is the problem with being "governed," this is why the Zapatistas have a different way, this is why many indigenous (i can't speak for all of them, but it is true of the EZLN) people use councils that share power, where no people "rule over" others, and certainly no one "race" ruling over another. but america has her slave history, has her kill-the-indian culture history...and it all repeats and the echoes don't seem so incredible when your country was founded by powdered-wig types who believed they were inherently superior to the Darkie.

this problem you see with old white rich men ruling without intelligence, empathy, or kindness is the problem that some libertarians have with government—societies like ours develop divisions wherein a ruling class lays down the law on others, and it is not done with the compassion you speak of.

while i agree wholeheartedly with everything nez and celticfeminist wrote, it is critical to keep in mind that THIS PROPOSAL CAN - AND WILL - BE CHANGED. while i am not hopeful that the finished product will be worth supporting (and there is no way i would support it in its current version, based on what i've seen of it), it's too soon to give up. the lives of far too many people are on the line. call congress. send emails and faxes. convince your friends and family to do the same. take to the streets. organize!!! demand rights for immigrants. tell the senators that the proposals are WRONG WRONG WRONG, and then tell them how to fix it. the internet is filled with websites and blogs of immigrants, advocacy organizations and allies that break down the good and the bad (from a legal perspective) - check migra matters often for updates. but more importantly, talk from the heart. let the senators know that we are dealing with real people, with real families, with real issues - and that not only won't this "compromise" solve anything, but it will lead to way more problems.

sadly (and obviously), immigrants (especially the undocumented) are discriminated against, exploited and treated beyond poorly every day, everywhere in this country. sadly, no significant change will happen without those ultra-rich white men in congress changing the laws. while we must fight to change the system that makes this so, we have a chance now to do some real good for lots of people. again, i'm not hopeful that this current chapter will end well, but we still have to try.

nez (& celticfeminist) - i hope this doesn't sound like i'm saying that you've decided to mail it in. quite the opposite - i know how passionate you feel about this, and you have done so much to educate, inspire and lead people to action. i guess this is coming more from recent conversations where people basically said - "well, here they go again. no use getting involved, b/c congress obviously isn't listening to me." while that's probably true, we still need to do everything we can to insert compassion, respect and understanding into the debate. they're already hearing from the voices of racism and hatred - we need to be the voice of respect, justice and equality.

no, michael, right on time.

that point was not getting through to me. that it is still in flex, not fixed. open to input. thanks again for pressing it. had i more time today (i have my daughter all to myself today) i would make a mini post stressing your point. it will have to wait.

I think the saddest thing about this whole discussion, and I think someone stated it before,is the republicans are specifically for family values, but those family values only go so far as white-white families. They don't care about the family values of the rest of the world. I mean look at this war we are in right now, nobody has even considered the families that have to go through every day without their child, or father or brother, this government states that the most important thing is family values, but at every turn they are tearing families apart, mine included.

I honestly think that immigration is a deflection point for this government,they are deflecting from the major screw up they caused overseas, they are deflecting because immigration has always been a good thing to use to take people's minds off what they are doing when nobody is looking. Things were not half as hard for immigrants as they are now. I mean you can't get a license because you are illegal, you can't get your car registered because your illegal, therefore every day that you go to work, you risk getting pulled over, and arrested for just trying to go to work.

I think people who knock immigrants, and call them names have no clue how hard these people have worked to just live. I have had to go to the local county jail at least ten times in my marriage to bail a family member out because they got pulled over, either going to and/ or from work. It has even gotten to the point that you can not bail someone out of jail unless you have a state license (the state that you live in). I myself can say that I never understood how hard it was for an illegal immigrant to live in this country until I walked in their shoes. And I have felt myself have a sort of transformation, I can not imagine a life without these honorable hard working people. I have been down to Mexico and it is a very beautiful country, and I understand how a lot of immigrants leave their heart there, however it is a poor country, and not one single White U.S. Citzen who was born and raised here will ever understand how hard it is to live in a country that is as poor as Mexico is, unless they walk in an immigrants shoes.

I just want to say to all the immigrants who came here on foot, who crossed the rivers, mountains, and deserts. For every immigrant who ever had to hear about a cousin, brother/ sister, mother/father, aunt/uncle, or a friend, die on the way here, who ever had to sit in jail overnight because they didn't have papers, who ever had to watch someone get deported, and hope that they make it across the border alive. Who ever had to work 12-14 hour shifts for miminum wage, and then go back and do it again, every day hoping for something better. I just want to say, that you are the most honorable people in the country, you are the most hardworking, strongest, people in this country, and anyone who calls you a bad name, or discriminates against you deserves to walk in your shoes for one day, and tell you how hard it is, because they will never know.

You deserve to be in this country as much, if not more than we do. I respect you, and I hope everyone hears this, because it is the truth. I want comprehensive immigration reform, not this junk, that they think will appease some people, but really doesn't solve the problem. This is the first time in four years that I have ever been able to speak about how this makes me feel. You know you always have the fear that if you speak to loudly, someone will notice, and they will take actions to silence you, that has been my fear for the last four years, I have been constantly afraid that if I say something, it will bring more notice to my family, and get them taken away from me. It sounds ludicrous, but in this day and age, it is a possible thing, especially if you are saying something people don't want to hear. I appreciate you guys including my comments, I just want to state again, how much respect, I have for all of you, illegal or legal. Thank You.

I agree with you michael, justice, equality, and respect are the most important things. This government lacks compassion, and it shows well.

I think people who knock immigrants, and call them names have no clue how hard these people have worked to just live.

they don't even see them as human, sarah, that's why. they are ALIENZ and this makes people like your husband (and those in my own family) objects to these racists. objects to be used, to be talked about, to be ignored, to be lumped into some fearful inhuman category that paints them as "arrogant" for daring to cross the border, as dangerous because they may fill in a not-white box on a census form, or they may vote democrat one day (the GOP fears this because they are fully aware of how much racism props up their entire schema and they imagine on some level everyone else does, too) but mostly because these new americans may not favor White America's Imperialist bent, its neverending agenda to colonize or exploit other (brown) peoples. the establishment, the GOP specifically, doesnt see mexicanos as allies to america's age-old methodology, and these crusty old white pols know that if we don't keep enslaving and exploiting other poorer nations that have richer resources, America the Pyramid cannot continue, and they—the pharaohs—must fall.

i do think these abstract ideas guide this sort of cruelty. yet, as you point out, there are very real lives being affected. why cannot these GOPers, if they must think in the abstract, think in the abstracts that supposedly this nation was founded on and operates on?

what you wrote was beautiful. thank you. i also feel it is necessary to this blog's conversation. please always know you can leave comments here. this is a safe space for you and those who are living through what you and tu esposo are.

This thread is a great primer on the bill! I just wonder and this is complete conjecture but there is a 'secret' trade deal the dems & repubs are putting together and I wonder if the two things are connected. Both in negotiating terms but also in a way to provide the wider framework for workers rights (as in lack) across borders. The details are secret but it is related to NAFTA apparently
http://www.workingassetsblog.com/2007/05/secret_trade_deal_day_6_senato.html
After reading all through this post/thread it seems the deal still means an underclass of exploitable people will remain for corporations to discreetly use and the overall thing of we want you labour but not your family, culture, friends. I can see the points system being a weapon of abuse and an opportunity for some good simultaneously.
If you look at it from the angle of govt. & business managing the cost of labour (ie keep it low through insecurity, union busting, undocumented working etc) this seems to ensure low cost low 'skill' workers (has anyone ever looked into whether ICE raids happen after major work periods are done) while also allowing for the US to brain drain from abroad, ie, get the benefit of highly educated people without ever paying for their education and training. I'm suspicious that the true beneficiaries will really be the usual suspects of the corporatocracy and their chums in politics.
The only crime ever commitied is not what border someone crossed to work, but a boss stealing a person's hard work for less than it is worth. Creating the bogus idea of 'aliens' is a tactic to do that.

But I get the real importance is to pressure the pols to make the bill better, I guess some reform is better than none and each step is a won battle. But watch out for those signing statements!!

rickb,

while i'm pretty sure that the individual congresspeople involved in the trade and immigration negotiations were different, it's the same concept and process: negotiate behind closed doors, include both republicans and democrats, and let big business and their allies in congress drive the process. that's pretty much a formula for B-A-D.

Yeah, which is odd in one of those 'free democracy' type thingies you hear so much about. What Sarah said, her testimony should drive this, not K street.

rick b,

one more thought. while i don't think that THIS immigration "compromise" and THIS secret trade agreement were created jointly, there still is a strong connection between the two. "free" trade agreements devastate the economies of other countries (among other negative effects), leading their citizens to look elsewhere for jobs. often, they come to the united states. but they find little more than exploitation and discrimination here, while the biggest multinational companies and wealthiest of the wealthy make a killing off them here and in the countries they came from. so in that way, these trade agreements are related, and just make pro-immigrant reform even more urgent.

I just have one question, now of course I don't want to sound ignorant, but aside from contacting our congressman and senators, and protesting, what else can we do. What I am truly scared of, is that, they pass this bill, and then 2 years down the road we finally get bush out of office, and somebody goes in, that should not be in, and makes things ten times worse.

In the new bill they are talking about the head of household going back to their home country, and then being able to come back and be citzens, what happens if somebody changes the law, and these people who are trying to follow the rules get stuck down there. Its not like they have the money to come back over here, crossing illegally or however they would do it, thats why they came illegally in the first place, they had no other choice. What else can we do, to ensure that the rights of these people are taken care of. Its one thing to degrade them, and treat them as if they were nothing, that is a horrible thing in of itself that I could probably write about for a year, but to give them absolutely no right way to get what they need to survive is just plain cruel.

In the meantime, they are going to be beefing up security measures at the border, and trying out a new ID system, before they even allow the people to get Z Visas or guest worker permits so really this bill is not a solution, it is just prolonging things, it is making it easier for them to change the bill. They could start working on border security, and then we could get a new president who says, you know what, screw that previous bill, we don't need them, we've got these brand new security measures, lets send them all home. That is what I am truly scared of, and like I said earlier, in this day and age, anything is possible. And the fact of the matter is, we do need them, if we sent all of these 12 million people back, our economy would fall apart, we need them because they have made America better. And because they have made America better, they should have a rightful place beside us to watch it grow.

Thank You nezua, your comments have really touched me, I have never been able to talk about this, so speaking my mind, and knowing I can do so freely, is a wonderful feeling. Thank You very much for your comments. And I apologize if I sounded ignorant.

no apology necessary, sarah. and i agree...there are many elements of this "deal" that seem very troublesome to me when applied toa real life situation. i don't know enough about politics to really answer those questions confidently. i'm not sure there is much else to do aside from what you listed. but maybe someone else here has other ideas.

and i'm happy to have you here. hope you can take what helps and ignore the rest.

sarah,

while i certainly don't have all the answers (i'm just learning which questions to ask), here's the way the timeline is probably going to work (based on what i've read and heard) --

the senate will debate their proposals next week. senators can try and offer suggestions (amendments) to change what the proposal says. late next week, the entire senate will vote. the bill will either pass or fail. if it doesn't have enough votes to pass, then that's probably it for any possible new immigration laws at least until 2009 (after the next presidential election), if not later. if it passes, then the next step will be for the house of representatives to try and pass an immigration law, too. this probably wouldn't happen until over the summer. the house can either use the bill the senate passed as a starting point, or start with something different. it will be a longer process in the house, but if they can create something that gets enough votes, and assuming it's not 100% the same as the one the senate agrees to (which is usually the case), then negotiators from the senate and the house will need to get together to try and come up with a compromise. this probably wouldn't happen until late summer/early fall. if they figure out something that everyone agrees on, then it goes to the president to sign it. if he signs it, it will become law.

in reality, there's probably not a whole lot that can be done to influence the senate, since they're working with such a short timeline (though that doesn't mean we shouldn't try!). the real action will be in trying to convince the house, which tends to be more liberal than the senate, and more willing to be more pro-immigrant. since the action won't heat up until the summer (most likely), that gives us time to make calls, visit congressional offices, organize demonstrations, take to the streets, try and strengthen existing alliances and coalitions and form new ones.

you wonder what will happen with a new president in 2 years - me too! a lot will depend on if there is a new law, and if there is, it will depend on exactly what it says. that's way it's so important to try and fight for a good bill now, and if the final one is horrible, then we must fight against it. as sad as i feel to say it, nothing might be better than something (especially if the "something" is as bad as the "compromise"). and then if there is no new law, we have to try and fight the injustice that takes place each day, but that's a post for another day...

nez-hope you had a wonderful day with your daughter!!!

Did Sarah just hit the nail on the head? Is this a way to get the security industry/idiots what they want under cover of some reform which of course can always be neutered by subsequent bills/signing statements.
And Michael yes the spheres/effects of both bills intersect which does make me wonder is there an elephant in the room yet to be revealed (other than the usual one of unrestrained capitalism). Not in a tight conspiracy way but in a one hand washes the other manner.

Well conspiracy or not, there sure is enough going around, and this administation is dirty enough, that I am sure they can fit this bill to their liking. I guess we all just have to hope for the best. You know I always thought that there was enough people in this country, who were on our side, that it can make a difference. Would writing a blanket letter to all the Latin American Associations and having them pass it out, doing internet posts stating our cause, or just a wide variety of promotions, would that help influence an opinion. I mean there is 12 million immigrants in this country, and enough people who are like me, U.S. Citzens who are on the side of the immigrants. The numbers, if everyone pulled together could make a difference. The problem is, there are enough illegal immigrants who are scared (and rightfully so)that if they go to the protests, or call their senators, that it will single them out. I mean I think more so, since the raids. What do you guys think, is that a way we could do something?

I do my write up over the weekend and I am sure Duke over at Migra Matters will do his too. I don't like the behind the scene deal. There is a catch and I don't know what it is. I am pretty sure it has to do with Iraq or Free Trade, since Kennedy was involve in it. Something smells. You can take that to the bank, for chure vato.

oh i agree, XP. undoubtedly.

evidence of English and US history classes, can apply for citizenship

XP -

I'm looking forward to your write-up. Any idea exactly who participated in the closed-door negotiations? From what I've seen, it looks pretty clear that the proposal was more or less co-written by the Dept. of Homeland Security and big business (and their proxies in the Senate).

Nez,

Honestly, I'm still digesting the 300+ pages of this bill, the Strive act was some 700 pages in length and it's a bit daunting to actually make sense of it all. I'm doubting whether the legislators themselves read these bills entirely and simply opt for tossing in their "two cents" in order to curry favor amongst their constituents.

So, an honest answer your question would be, I really don't know. I'm torn, because this bill would initiate a new era of immigration for the US. It means that will now move in a direction that favors high skilled workers as it seeks to reduce low-skilled immigrant workers and family re-unification is no longer a major pillar of our immigration policy.

I'm reminded that historically the bulk of the immigrant workers arriving from Mexico and Central America have fallen into the category of low-skilled workers. The subsequent generations of these immigrants received an opportunity at a higher education and greater economic prosperity, so given that this bill would clearly be provide limited, if any, opportunities for future generations of immigrant workers beyond their ability to come and work for a few years and then return home.

Taking the aforementioned into consideration, I do feel that Mexico has for a long time been allowed a free pass on what can only be deemed its moral obligation to provide better jobs and economic opportunities to its people and bears much responsibility for casually exporting it's most precious resource to the United States only to sit back and let remittances become the second most important income source next to oil exports.

It just so happens that I posted on this issue on my blog today, I published the post prior to reading your question, so you may find something of interest in that post.

I'm going to be watching the Senate hearings/debates and will post more later. I'm also sure that XP and Duke at Migra Matters will weigh in with some significant posts on the matter, which I look forward to reading.

At the moment I agree with Michael that we can impact the final language of the bill by making our voices heard to Senate and Congressional leaders.

Lastly, I think that whatever the final bill looks like, it has the potential of being a catalyst for major improvements in Mexico or potentially be the cause of a new revolution.