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10 de Agosto, 2007
Indig Nation [Nez Crashes YearlyKos Pt. 3]
Categorized under YKos2007 | Tags: blogs, Change, My Life, Race, YearlyKos 2007
I AM TRYING TO TAKE MY TIME with this YearlyKos tale and do it the right way. It's a fine line. On one hand, I have my pace. On the other hand, I don't want to give too much up, so that there is something left for the actual mini-Doc (how long do I really want to make it?) but I want to give up enough to keep it interesting. One of the things I struggle with online is the pull toward conformity. Not saying all conformity is bad, if "we" are to be We, then we need a little. But there is a certain pace and a certain attention toward specific trends or timings that exist when you plug into the online conversation. In this case it may be nothing more than the flow of natural conversation--which moves at a different pace than putting together even a small film. YKos over? WaPo frames it. Bang, Hamsher comes out and gives her say so on it. Bang, some disagree. Bang Stoller says his piece, Bang, Bowers reacts, Bang, Kai spits it. Bang, TPM says it's all over. The dialogue is shaped for future reference and current perception. But it's not all over. Just the shouting. And maybe the graphs and stats and big box bloggers with their proclamations of Equal Voice and Faux Indignation and Manufactured Outrage.
But the truth--even when you raise your volume to drown it--moves just as it will, and when. And she walks on many legs!
First of all, I feel like pointing at Kai about as often as Atrios points at Digby, so I am happy letting, for now, one of my blogmigos field (and round up others who field up) some of that bullshit that really sticks in my craw while I try to unfold my own tale at the pace it wants to unfold. But I will get something out of the way right at this spot:
Of course Stoller and Hamsher see things the way they do. (As well as their friends who travel in the same circle.) Guess what? Nothing will change the way they see this divide. Because they do not see the world the same as Kai, or ebogjohnson, or myself, or Kid Oakland does. We don't even agree on the measuring standards, how we gonna agree on what is being measured? And I don't think either 'side' is here to be convinced, frankly. Right? Think about it. We are here to talk about how we see the Way Forward, and to attract and empower other like-minded people.
So perhaps we ought to drop the idea of getting There together. At least of walking side by side those who claim to be going places right now. Just spitballing, here.
Hamsher's take on the diversity of the blogosphere--at least in the first part of her post--reminds me of the Republicans' basic premise of Bootstrap. It could be seen as an individualist take on a problem that some would argue is systemic. It is an "I'm a woman, and I made it, so all is well." I say it's inarguably limited in vision, in this case, to assume so much, and to reduce the conversation so. That these ten blogs are the Internet, and because they stack up a certain way racially (not in agenda or voice), everything's coo'. √ We gots our diversity.
Let me just twiddle a tiny bit with a few of the examples Hamsher trots out to smash the diversity conversation.
The biggest blogger by far is Arianna Huffington, with 70 million page views per month. Markos is #2, and no amount of willingness to turn him into a white male is going to do that. Markos is Hispanic and that's just a straight fact. John Amato and Duncan Black are straight white men, but John Aravosis is gay (and so are many of his contributors). FDL rounds out the list of top blogs on the left, headed by two women, although Pach -- a Hispanic gay man -- is also one of our primary voices. Digby is probably the most quoted and sharpest thinker around, and she's a woman. I just had to roll my eyes when I heard people who don't actually, you know, blog (and I'm sorry, but putting up an occasional post on the web site of your think tank/interest group/consulting firm's website does not de facto make you familiar with the ins and outs of blogging or the blog world) talk about some cabal of straight white males who sit around a table and decide who does and does not get linked to. To the best of my knowledge, Duncan Black and John Amato haven't yet figured out a way to seamlessly oppress the rest of us and bend us like pretzels to their iron will.
One, Hamsher is right, Huffpost is run by a woman. And Hamsher gets propz from me, as well as Ms. Huffington, for building their virtual empires. I'm not entirely sure that the cries for "diversity" are meant to communicate the idea that white women haven't made it in the blog world, that they are not represented, but aside from that, on those two points, Ms. Hamsher is correct.
Two. You know, I'm not sure reframing the issue as a complaint that the blogosphere is "all white males" is accurate either, now that I think of it. Isn't that just a bit disingenuous? Is that really the complaint? It's a nice soundbyte...but I'm not sure it has enough nuance to be accurate. I'm not sure it does a service to the conversation to boil it down to such phrases. Although images of bendy pretzels, not bad. I'm going to add some mustard if she doesn't mind. Mmmmm.
Three, she is right, nothing can change Markos' racial makeup. (And none of this is to comment on the moral right of DailyKos to exist, etc etc:) but maybe, Dear Jane, when some say "diversity; they mean more than a photo or skin tint, or ticking off names that sound Otherly in origin. Maybe when you say "white" you mean in terms of racial consideration, and others mean in terms of agenda. (Is this also too nuanced, I hope not.) And maybe when some say "Latino/Hispanic Blogger" in terms of obstacles and success and affiliation, they mean something entirely different than what Mister Moulitsas has done (so well).
On identifying him, in general, as a "Latino Blogger" or a "Hispanic Blogger," I'll quote an email I sent recently:
in the given context, the qualifier "Latino" [or Hispanic] has a different connotation, as far as I'm concerned. When you classify a blogger by ethnicity, you usually intend to also describe their agenda, as "blogging" itself is an action--and so often a politically-conscious one.
In the "Diversity" context, claiming Markos as a "Hispanic/Latino Blogger" is very disingenuous, and a disservice to those who are actual "Latino/a Bloggers." This is not a "who is a real 'Latino'" argument, please note. It is a specific comment on the idea of Diversity in the Blogosphere, and who represents what, and can therefor be said to champion a cause or be affiliated with ideas or movements or struggle. Markos does not self-identify as a "Latino Blogger," or a "Hispanic Blogger," so I say don't push him into a place he does not inhabit with his actions or focus. Simple. Additionally (or alternatively), you call him "Hispanic," but the Nixon administration's word denotes a shared language. And I don't really see how Markos is connected to the language.
Fact is, I know white bloggers who would more accurately be called "Hispanic Bloggers" than Mister Moulitsas-Zuñiga. And they do deal with the roadblocks and currents that move against those groups who make discussions of diversity necessary because they speak on issues that the mainstream (You, Jane, and friends) would render "pet issues."
It is also equally disingenuous to claim Digby for diversity! Digby rose to notice and "power" as (in her own words) a neutral or genderless voice. Later, once she had a huge following, she outed herself as a woman. So what would she be a symbol for? Rising in the current power structure as an anonymous, genderless voice? You've come a long way baby! No, that's why Digby is not h eld up by any Feminists I know of as an icon of empowerment. Note for the nuance-impaired: this is not a slur on Digby, who is a fantastic mind and writer. This is, very narrowly, an argument against claiming the health of diversity on the Internet by using a person who hid their (notably female) sex as they became popular! Please. Make an honest point. Unless we are talking about "diversity" in two wholly different ways (appearance/quota vs. true representation/focus) you don't even speak the same language with this use of token examples.
I really think we need to get away from the idea that anybody is actually complaining that it is White Males ruining everything. It is not, actually, White Males. It is a mode of thinking that preferences certain decisions and priorities and types of people and value systems. Some say "the patriarchy" and some say "the system." There are probably many names we give to this mode of thinking, but I'm not sure focusing on "White Males" is accurate enough. Perhaps we need a new codification. Because there is a certain allegiance to or abdication of priorities that are implied by an overly White Male population of writers...and that is probably a more focused analysis of the Diversity Complaint that Hamsher is addressing, but what is the best way to describe it? We all know that you need not be White or Male to throw that particular pattern of switches. Then again, Hamsher's arguments rely on the ideas that the inner agenda must by necessity match the outward appearance. Either that, or that all that counts is the appearance when talking about diversity.
Ultimately and overall, the FDL essay sort of took my by surprise. Simply the vociferousness of it. The energy of her resistance to the conversation. To see such an empassioned response to an issue that is rather important to so many who want to feel represented in the core and crux of today's public and political conversations. We all agree the Internet is a vastly empowering tool. We now discuss who is at the helm, and not just what their skin looks like or their alleles look like, but what the directions are, and how they steer.
The truth is, I had more hope for the Chicago Voices project meaning something to the integral idea of the Progressive Blogosphere before I--
a) learned more about the Progressive Blogosphere's history with this idea as a whole;
b) read the recent reactions/essays by the Progressive White blogosphere on the idea of Diversity in the blogosphere.
The whole thing reminds me of the sickened Right. Not only in opposition to certain ideas, but actually hostile to the very discussion of them. And dammit, class: Stoller demands proof and numbers with his issues!
Ah, our Nez all over again, isn't it? He's so damn idealistic.
Well, I like to learn the way I like to learn.
I was offered a chance to take part in the last YearlyKos that is to be (now to be torn from the I.D. of its Founding Father and called Netroots Nation) by Kid Oakland. I was part of the Chicago 17 faction of bloggers brought to Ykos to provide "Diversity." Some of us were black, some were brown, some were from rural areas, some from the South (Dirty South Represent, Nita!). Some saw the Chicago Voices project as increasing the range/style of input/voices at the event, some saw it as increasing the range of skin tone in the photos of the event, some saw it as a bitter meeting of worlds that ought not meet, and I saw it as me bringing an eye (with tape and sound) to frame up one particular Latino's experience of the event. (That last part is the part that will unfold last. I went with an open mind, and trying to answer a few questions to myself, and I did.) And I'm sure some saw it in yet other ways. There are a lot of eyes in this hive.
Kid Oakland is cool beans. Kid Oakland is interested in new reality, in actuality, in kindness, in truth. In listening. Kid Oakland ain't afraid or selfish. He represents a certain non-Stollerish type of "white" person. But Kid Oakland is not YearlyKos, and he sure ain't DailyKos in general. I say this because to me, this event ended up being about people like Bernita and Jose and Martha G and Kid Oakland. Not about a program contained within a convention. And to me, that is an important distinction to make. This was a tiny movement of righteous and ordinary people who were doing they thing even in the face of blatant disinterest and even discouragement. I hope you know why I make the distinction. It has to do with where to invest hope.
Let me lay it out right here that the Chicago Voices event could have been much bigger. All the big blogs could have talked it up and who knows how it--and the issue it represents/symbolizes--might have grown. I'm not saying this after-the-fact gripingly, don't misunderstand. What I mean is that the big blog boys n girlz were offered the info early on, and they passed on the opportunity. Those who know this don't say so in print because confrontation is not what they are looking for, but that's what happened. They all passed on it when it was in the seeding stage, and even when it was something that could be written about and pushed.
That's why I'm glad I don't see them talking about it now except to douse the idea of increasing diversity. That's why I'm glad they have ignored the project from start to end. Otherwise I'd be blasting them for talking now. I'd say "You know, y'all weren't interested in even the appearance of diversity before now, so please, shut the fuck up about it, now--cool?" But they are consistent, at least. They were non-interested before, and now they are mostly interested in hushing the rising deductions that there was and is a reason projects like the Chicago Voices are called for and born. They may be right, however in their rejection of the idea of such a project. For reasons of my own, I believe the way lies not in any such project. After all, how would it grow next year? We only had like five Latinos in our caucus! Two were of our group. So next year? Even more donors? For what? Can we really believe that this is the way to bring those things important to us about as real change? Rooms with seven of us in Chicago? More and more donors and Kid Oaklands who do it for us? Sure, next time I'd expect to pay my own way entirely, but in retrospect, would I spend so much on such a thing as it is?
No, the answer is not there, I think. Nor in the progressive blogosphere, to be honest. I paraphrase/channel BlackAmazon and say that the answer lies in us. And the others will reckon. Or be by our sides.
However, this brings the question Who is We? And what do We want?
The truth is, I ended up (still) believing in people. I ended up feeling very good about the Chicago Voices project, and about the people who put that together. And I still do. Those people, and people like us, are lots of places. But in masses at Ykos? I say No. In masses at FDL? Nah. In masses at MyDD? I don't think so. Nor at OpenLeft. I have a bigger mass of them right here.
And really, YearlyKos? I don't end up feeling as if I even went to YearlyKos Proper. I tried, but never quite got there. Not at Drinking Liberally, not when the crowd crushed close for Dean, not the day I left, when the Presidential candidates were flying in. I hung out with my quadmates (of the Chicago 17, or three of us), I hung out at a bar and a restaurant, and of course I hung out at the convention, mostly in rooms that had to do with hispanic/latino/immigration issues. Those I really enjoyed, for the most part. But that was a couple rooms out of the whole thing. I don't say this to knock Kid Oakland's effort or intent or any great things that sprung up out of any of us meeting, or any number of people had regarding the entire experience. Because of course, it's not all about my experience or opinion, and there are other stories.
But I am still speaking, you realize, to the larger questions I posed to myself in Part 2.
In light of these questions, to me, even if the "Diversity thing" this time around actually made some things happen (like an email list), the question I am left with is at what cost, this email list? And why do we--of the Brown™--need "Netroots Nations" for that? We'd only be assimilating once more into the flow of what the majority wants to make happen, and wants to ignore. We'd be fighting that HamshersStollerKos wave of agenda and derision. And even if it isn't called YearlyKos, it will be the same makeup as the mainstream makes anything that it makes of itself. That's the just the nature of the beast. And that beast takes too much energy to corral or try to guide. We would still be subjugating our primary causes for theirs. Humped over in the foyer, carrying close our Pet Issues.
This need not lend itself to strict and utter insularity on our part. That is not what I intend. We don't have to reject friends who are "white," simply because they are "white" or blogs that are bigger than us just because of such a thing. But then again, we wouldn't feel any need to "guide or corral" these individuals or blogs. When people are open and diverse of thinking, they seem to just appear, as my friends have around this blog. And there is no vast gap in perception. And of what space there is, well, friends can grow together. Or just make room.
But again...Who is We? I am guessing I will revisit this one. Or perhaps I have been visiting it all the while.
Those who would ride the mainstream to wherever it nudges itself say "Cool! We don't need to "corral or guide" this thing. We just try to use it to alter its own path slightly, we make ourselves a part of that as we do it." Or they sum up with something like "Okay, we see the problem, we are going to make it better, stop being angry, now." But then there are those who do not see it that way, and they say "We are not interested in what that beast is sniffing, or in reaching any meadows it seeks, or in petting this beast. And frankly, riding it would chap my ass."
It's tempting to smack on a well-shaped conclusion here. But that would imply I have an answer to this divide in perception. I don't know that I do.
But I will throw out some political musings.
1. Political Fax.:
Not only is it the franchise chains and business trendwatchers, but it is also the political Left in general--from politicians to poll takers to mainstream blogs--that is beginning to focus on Mexicans and Mexican migrants. If up to now, you just talk about their plight as stories and people, you will reach certain hearts, its true. Certain non-Stollerish hearts. But I speak now of those Stolleristas; those for whom the stories and el corazón was never and could never be enough; those data-crunching whiteprogressives in power and those who would seek power and those who deal in power are becoming interested because of the power of the buying and voting base of Latinos. Because of how the Democrats can yoke the Latino vote, because of how the Hispanic vote can punch a hole in the Republican power base, should it keep shifting left.
So what is happening, fellow members of the Brown™? One way to see it is that the mainstream is slummin'. They are coming to us. But the world has not changed, of course. We have great hope for many things, but we are not fools. They come to harness us. For their dream. It feels a bit gross to see the calculation all about you. But the fact is people often become inspired to act when power or self-interest is involved. This is not ideal, but it is real. We need not shun all these efforts. On the pragmatic tip, they are in motion, they are interested. There is opportunity for change to happen. There are ears open, and more eyes turning every day. We should keep this in mind with our efforts, keep our eyes open.
I think of the story of Narnia's birth, where the ground was so fertile with growth and magic that you could jam a metal lamppost into the soil and it would take root. That is this time we are in now. At the same time, if we care about nuestra gente as an idea, as well, then we should also keep both eyes open for those coming near seeking power. There will be those, too, who would use me and you.
Sadly, the Right--on the whole--simply continues to apply its intense and fearful focus on Mexicans and Mexican (and other brown) immigrants, too. And even Mexican Americans and all Latinos/Hispanics or brown-in-origin folks. I'm no expert. But in general, the Republicans seem to be happiest when everyone lives and sees as they do: as if we are on a tiny island of wealth and goodness and beset on all sides by those who would drag us off our heap and steal the assets we clutch so tightly.
And then I say, quietly, and to myself--
Who is We?
Next, in Pt. 4: Pocho en la Ciudad; McCormick Place, The Convention; Chicanos, Chairs, Caucasians and Caucuses.
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Comentarios (61)
Man Eegee dijo:
Lots to digest here, Nezua. It's amazing what a different set of lenses will do to overthrow a perceived reality.
Palabras por Man Eegee spat forth on el 10 de Agosto, 2007 at 10:01 PM
Matt Ortega dijo:
El Pocho en la Ciudad! When this doc drops, I gotta create me a IMDb profile and throw that up there as my film debut.
1. El Pocho en la Ciudad (2007) ... Himself
-working title: El Pocho No Puede Granizar Un Taxi
(Does that translate properly? Like I said, "Soy un pocho!")
Palabras por Matt Ortega spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 04:47 AM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
jeje....it looks right to me. great expert that i am.
for real, we oughtta throw that up on IMDB. i wonder what creds we need to get it there. shoot. i have a page as cinematographer at IMDB for one of the indies i shot. too bad its under a different name, i'd have an easy in for this one.
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 07:04 AM
NLinStPaul dijo:
As Manny said above, there is much to chew on in all this. But it gets to many of the questions I have as well. I think you articulated well the suface level where so much of this happens, which is related to skin color and gender. I tell you that, as a white woman, I feel NO kinship with what Hamsher is saying.
In my professional life, I work with youth and families in an urban area - mostly black. And I see the whole issue of what is happening in our urban areas as my calling. When, as Bob Herbert wrote a couple of weeks ago, our poor kids are living in a war zone to the point that 34 children were killed on the streets of Chicago in less than a year, I am outraged and want to roll up my sleeves and get to work. WTF is going on??? Just wrap you mind around that and apply the same thing to LA, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Houston, Atlanta.....
The first thing I noticed about ykos was that there was NO forum on what is going on in our urban areas. I actually hate saying something like that because I hate for my mind to go to a victim place. But there it is.
So, I want to know where my "we" is as well. Where does a white woman go to fight for the kids, mostly of color, who are being sacrificed on our streets to a war that no one even acknowledges is happening?
I have learned much here from you Nezua and others in various POC blogs that has informed my calling. And from that, my little corner of the world continues to move forward.
Palabras por NLinStPaul spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 10:04 AM
Kai dijo:
Yeah I'm with you all the way through this post, Nez. (Thanks for the props too; and yes I'm quite happy to field white liberal bullshit and rip it to ribbons and confetti when the party mood hits me. ;-)
The HamsherStollerKos responses to "the diversity issue" really are rather remarkable for their sheer hostility to the very subject, as well as the racial ignorance of the thinking which they deploy to defend this hostility. And I'm always struck by just how bad much of the writing is in the whitosphere: the cliches, the illogic, the intellectual dishonesty, the sloppiness. I mean, that FDL post you quote is pure garbage; and Stoller and Atrios actually applaud it. I mean, if racial "diversity" refers only to melanin, then the Bush administration is the most "diverse" White House in US history; which is irrelevant because the sprinkling of melanin throughout this administration has not in any way changed what this White House is all about.
The Statusquolake crowd usually talks about money and education as the two big reasons why the liberal blogosphere is so white. So let's see: Asian Americans on average make more money than whites, have more advanced formal education, and have higher rates of internet usage than whites. So it follows that Asian Americans would have disproportionately high representation in that crowd, right? Hmm, actually I'm not aware of any Asian progressives at all among "big box" blogs. I don't think I even saw any Asians among the Chicago 17. What was your impression of Asian representation at YearlyKos, Nez?
Sorry, it ain't just money and education. As you point out, it's the agenda; it's a whole way of framing issues and thinking about the world, a whole set of cultural signifiers and social cues and political priorities. Those are the reasons why the whitosphere is so middle-class white; it's not an accident, it's designed to produce this result, a sort of invisible cyber-redlining of the blogosphere.
Personally I have no interest in doing "outreach" (wtf? as if all bloggers have the same coarse motivations and uninspired aspirations) in order to attract the attention of the whitosphere; and I certainly don't want to get linked by these advertising sites full of herd-like non-thinkers. I don't know of any brown bloggers who carp about getting linked or who are jealous of white blogs. So to answer your question, Who is We?, in the context of blogs, I guess We is those of us drumming out our own unique authentic brown-centered rhythms regardless of the latest lurid political tabloid headlines, and painting many-layered pictures of our worldviews -- including our perspectives on something like YearlyKos -- with language and imagery that is meaningful, honest, and consciousness-raising. Or I dunno, something like that, I just made that up on the fly.
Anyway, thanks for all the great insights into this whole journey, amigo. I'm really looking forward to the doc and whatever else comes of it.
Peace.
Palabras por Kai spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 10:27 AM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
thats a beautiful fly, mano. bottle that shit!
gracias para todas.
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 10:35 AM
mariachi mama dijo:
Beautiful, Nez. Right now there is a front page post at DKos fretting about the diversity issue, again, with many of the same clueless responses.
And I entirely agree that Markos should not be called a "latino blogger".
But..I do wish more colored bloggers would post a blogs like DKos. I do beleieve we need a bigger voice in the white blogoshere. I post regularly at DKos, myself, even though it is often very discouraging, especially when I read how "they" want our votes, but not our issues.
Palabras por mariachi mama spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 10:56 AM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
Kai, looking at the hardcopy schedule, there was out of all of the event, one 1.5hr caucus for Asian Americans. I should have stuck around to film it. :(
But in my anecdotal experience, for what it's worth, I can't recall meeting/seeing any Asian Americans....
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 12:11 PM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
You make a good point, Mariachi Mama. There should be more of us (of those who want to be there, up in that ride, of course). Absolutely. Thank you for what you are doing.
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 12:12 PM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
Thank you NL. You are welcome to be in my We, for what it's worth to you. You've been a great energy and friend to my knowledge.
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 12:13 PM
Man Eegee dijo:
mariachi mama hits on something that i've been thinking about alot lately. why do i bother posting at some of the bigger sites? (i actually posted at Kos yesterday, a first in a while) and, aside from the friendships i've developed over the years, very real friendships, it's because more eyes will see the stories i'm trying to tell. at our own blogs, people can either read it - or not - and with the larger sites, it's there in the mix. Granted, at Kos, there will be plenty of battling going on in the comments, especially wrt immigration, but i think there is some value to taking our message out to this crew of people that only have a self-sense of importance because they were doused with oil on their heads by the MSM and political class.
Anywho, still letting this all stew in my head. Thx for the opportunity to discuss it.
Palabras por Man Eegee spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 12:34 PM
Eric Stoller dijo:
Great post. Great writing. Lots to think about...thanks for writing.
On another note, I either need to change my name or re-claim "Stoller" :-)
I had to giggle a little when I read that...
Palabras por Eric Stoller spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 12:35 PM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
aw shit, see? i'll have to work his full name in there. that's not fair at all. jeje
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 12:42 PM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
good point manny. for me, waiting for the backlash or imagining one sort of shuts down my creative process. but i'm not against it ideologically.
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 12:43 PM
Man Eegee dijo:
well, it wasn't always so bad (in my opinion, of course). as DKos' numbers grew, so with it the level of people who have totally bought into the Lou Dobbs so-called "populist" stance of anti-immigrant sentiment. I have to say, that at BoomanTribune, my diaries have always been well-received there. XP is frontpaged at the moment and crossposts as well. There are avenues, but I totally hear you on the creative process thing.
Many of these posters come from an engineering standpoint, and I think we're seeing some hostility from them because of the huge amounts of outsourcing. It's protectionism at the most basic level. You should see their heads explode when you try to talk about the racial undertones. They don't see how their feeding the nativist beast.
Palabras por Man Eegee spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 12:52 PM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
with so many ways to see things and so much invested in those paradigms on so many ends, i sometimes wonder how we'll ever get anywhere as a whole, or whether it will be tug-of-war fashion all the way.
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 12:57 PM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
you just reminded me, i think i met the booman cat drinking outside the hyatt...i think i said i was gonna blogroll that joint. i'll have to head over there and see if that's the place. i can't remember it so well, but i think that's what the guy said.
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 12:58 PM
Man Eegee dijo:
Here's a post with a pic of Boo and kid oakland, if you need a mind refresher on who you were chattin' with. Got to meet him in January in DC, but have known the guy online for a couple of years. He's got open ears to our stance on immigration.
Palabras por Man Eegee spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 01:31 PM
chris dijo:
It's rather telling that the big blogs would prefer white empty space than to add social color to the blogroll. If I go to any homepage of these sites, there is white empty space all over my lcd screen. If the leaders of these sites could recognize social color commentary leads to social justice discussion which leads to more liberal policies and leaders, we could accomplish so much. I say social color because it's not what race you are, but rather what your talking, writing about.
Palabras por chris spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 02:05 PM
mariachi mama dijo:
Manny, you are right about the "engineers" I think. I don't know if you saw how freaked out one of them got when Kid Oakland announced the names of the 17. Talk about exploding heads!
Palabras por mariachi mama spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 02:18 PM
Man Eegee dijo:
no, didn't see that; but i've run into a few regular suspects so can imagine the vitriol.
o/t but is anyone watching CNN's coverage today about the mining accident? Juan Hernandez' picture is mysteriously missing now - it was there earlier in the week. I've been wondering if the three Mexican nationals' status would become an issue and would like to find out if they are making an editorial decision. We already know that our undocumented brothers and sisters as sub-human to them.
Palabras por Man Eegee spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 02:27 PM
BLackamazon dijo:
* just claps*
Palabras por BLackamazon spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 03:14 PM
jenifer fernandez ancona dijo:
Nez, you are so right on about FDL's take on the Washington Post article and the issue in general. I love the "statusquolake" icon so much I might cry. Thanks for saying this, and for linking to some of the great commentary on it. I knew I wasn't crazy...
Palabras por jenifer fernandez ancona spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 03:57 PM
RC dijo:
If this was great as part three, post and comments too, I can't wait to read part four, sure to be spectacular.
Also thanks for the links to other posts at other blogs about YKos which I have not read yet, but will get to.
Still digesting this cognitive feast.
Good luck with the footage cutting, Nez. Or however that works now. Electron trimming maybe.
An opinion I will offer as a former documentary maker: this type of topic is best served fresh, so get it out there soon.
I await part four for now.
Palabras por RC spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 06:31 PM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
good advice, will heed. gracias.
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 06:32 PM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
thanks for all your heart and effort in the recent past, jenifer.
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 06:33 PM
Tom dijo:
Kai said: "I'm always struck by just how bad much of the writing is in the whitosphere: the cliches, the illogic, the intellectual dishonesty, the sloppiness."
Yeah, that's what I ran away from. Lacking melanin is one thing, lacking brain cells is another.
Palabras por Tom spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 06:36 PM
donna darko dijo:
there were about five apias on panels, amanda terkel (think progress), s.r. sidarth, eric byler, adam conner (mydd) and curtis chin. there should have been about 80 apias attendees out of 2000 but i doubt this was the case. as far as kos, he is hispanic and the top decision-maker in the netroots. that can't be discounted but he does not promote progressivism i.e. feminism and anti-racism. he was strong-armed into including women at the second yearly kos so he improved on the feminist part.
Palabras por donna darko spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 08:32 PM
donna darko dijo:
these are just my observations from the internet about the event.
but face it, nez, you are a rock star in the netroots.
Palabras por donna darko spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 08:34 PM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
well, damn, donna. if that's the case, i'm sure i'm missing out on some benefits.
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 11 de Agosto, 2007 at 09:30 PM
Joan Kelly dijo:
I just can never grasp what it is that serves as the logic for the "we are, too, diverse enough!" tantrums. The implication is that anybody who says otherwise has something to gain by imagining racism/sexism where it doesn't exist. Because it just doesn't REALLY exist enough anymore to keep racism/sexism-haters occupied. We're going stir crazy from the emptiness so hallucinations have set in. Or, more insulting, people are not actually imagining it but are just pretending to, for the purposes of...? Taking time out of a busy day to revel in making other people feel needlessly "guilty"? I mean for god's sake already.
It is so exasperating on top of ugly. This post soothes my stunted-from-aggravation mind, the way you articulate everything so beautifully and with sharp humor and always that trademark Nezua undercurrent of love. And on the love subject, I can't thank you enough for the way you make this blog a safe space for other voices to show up and speak, and then I get to love them too, and go check out their places. Thank you, and thanks to all the commenters too.
Palabras por Joan Kelly spat forth on el 12 de Agosto, 2007 at 12:22 AM
BLackamazon dijo:
THere is a l ogic , and it's cold and its calculating.
NEz brought it up in Hellcat but part of their MO their whole reason for being able to do this, and to attract attention is by claiming they provide voices to " voiceless"
and that they are diverse
Notice how Hamsher ignores the fact that people who do blog heartily, and readily pointed out and have been pointing out the stupid for many many YEARS.
Notice that she had to NAME NAMES ( aka I have insert ethnic friends AND NAME EM and we'll let alone the fact that Asian folks and ablism is all out in the wind on this one)
SO in order to continue to make that statement
WE HAVE TO BE IRATIONAL
or unworthy
OR BOTH
We can't be trusted to have our own agendas because it's all about them
and that is why they must save us!
And if their saving us like bono
THEY SHOULD BE GETTING COVERAGE AND MONEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THEY DO THE GOOD WORK!
Palabras por BLackamazon spat forth on el 12 de Agosto, 2007 at 06:33 AM
Tom dijo:
Whoever the bloggers are, in DKos's survey of readers well 82% identified as white, but that was almost 86% of the people who identified racially at all. So, as BA says, the response on "diversity" is just a few anecdotes. These folks are writing for an overwhelmingly white audience. That's indisputable.
On BA's "cold and calculating" point ... as you know I'm a defector from el otro lado. The old song Behind Blue Eyes is a pretty good picture of how I was taught to think.
Palabras por Tom spat forth on el 12 de Agosto, 2007 at 07:45 AM
peasant dijo:
Being challenged by nuance as you say, it took me more than one reading of your article, the linked articles, and the commentarios but I was finally able to revive enough dormant synapses for a light to come on. More than one light flickered. Muchisimas gracias.
Palabras por peasant spat forth on el 12 de Agosto, 2007 at 07:56 AM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
sorry to have you running through all the warehouses, my friend, checking bulbs. it may be one or more of mine that need to be replaced, too! gracias.
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 12 de Agosto, 2007 at 08:30 AM
organic mechanic dijo:
go, Nez!
beautifully done. i was @ YK1 and saw it all coming. the Townhaus folks, and now a new super-secret A-list only inside the Whiteway listserv for big cigar back-room talks, all strategizing on how to get...more famous? their magic bullet policrat leaders in place? endgame not clear.
all good folks, mind you. all united we stand in getting current regime out before we nuke more brown folks, and the a-listers are good for that. but beyond? kinda' limited -- but then look at their day-to-day realities...how many silver spoons in mouths? how many in cozy bubble-wrapped progressive communities like a Santa Monica far far away from the trenches?
any Iraqi bloggers @ YK2?
thumbs down on the Netroots Nation re-naming thing. one more co-opt.
and BLESS YOU for the statusquolake logo -- too good!
peace.
Palabras por organic mechanic spat forth on el 12 de Agosto, 2007 at 09:42 AM
ali eteraz dijo:
Hey, I am so glad I saw this post. I am a Muslim-American and I had the same reaction as you on the Hamsher post.
We can keep going back to the issue and still not get anywhere: the problem is systematic injustice, not identity injustice.
I wrote my post here:
http://eteraz.org/2007/08/07/pluralism-is-more-than-identities/
It is called Pluralism is More Than Identities
I ended up having a debate with an FDL frontpager about it.
http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=610
I would invite you to check out our new site, called Plural Politics
Its about page is here: http://eteraz.org/about/
I write at Huffington Post, and my bio is here: http://eteraz.wordpress.com/about/
Really enjoyed your writing. Get in touch with me.
Palabras por ali eteraz spat forth on el 12 de Agosto, 2007 at 10:24 AM
Theriomorph dijo:
Thank you for articulating this so beautifully - and with the honest, fierce, funny, risk-taking, heart-invested nuance I'm getting to know & trust in your work, Nezua.
Spend a lot of time searching the blogosphere for writers with equal parts craft, courage, heart, and willingness to honestly be themselves - three-dimensionally, with nuance, in public - regardless of pressures, fashions, and hit-status. To do so is radical political risk, and a radical political action, and really, the only thing I trust from people. Don't find many who do this.
You're a treasure, and I'm glad you're there.
Palabras por Theriomorph spat forth on el 12 de Agosto, 2007 at 02:07 PM
donna darko dijo:
hamsher is completely out to lunch.
rock star = someone who gets lots of attention + sex appeal
Palabras por donna darko spat forth on el 13 de Agosto, 2007 at 08:09 PM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
thank you organic mechanic...i think there are many good hearts on both sides. i'm thinking a lot about all of this. there's a lot to think about, feel out.
--
theriomorph, what strong words...thank you so much for this. it's not the first time i read it...i like reading it. i wasn't sure how to respond. it means a lot.
--
donna darko, it's been a while since i studied for algebra with someone. thank you. it's all coming back to me. wanna hold my electric guitar?
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 13 de Agosto, 2007 at 08:23 PM
tgrdug dijo:
Nez, this whole conversation nails it for me of feelings and experiences I've had since my younger days until even now. Thank you for sharing the wealth of ideas. Where I live now (Tx) it is more pronounced than before where I'm from in Los Angeles. It's just that the blogosphere is yet another medium in which these paradigms proliferate and are cultivated. As you know, it also spawns in churches, in business, in the gated neighborhoods. Count me in, hombre. Si Se Puede!
Palabras por tgrdug spat forth on el 13 de Agosto, 2007 at 09:16 PM
Joan Kelly dijo:
I know I gotta snap out of it. There's not really another explanation than it being cold and calculating, it doesn't make sense for me to marvel over the illogical-ness of what's being said and done.
Palabras por Joan Kelly spat forth on el 13 de Agosto, 2007 at 10:04 PM
Hudson dijo:
Another flaw in Hamsher's "top ten" analysis is the premise itself: Since when is diversity or thoughtfulness or sensitivity or any other quality for that matter best assessed by running down the top ten of anything? If 5 of the top 10 bloggers were people of color, and 99 out of the next 100 were not, would that be progress?
Palabras por Hudson spat forth on el 14 de Agosto, 2007 at 03:31 AM
Nightprowlkitty dijo:
I first encountered your blog when Kid Oakland posted a diary at Daily Kos linking to several of the folks who came to YKos as part of the Chicago 17. I spent a long time reading all of the blogs. I felt Bernita was a star. I read one of your entries (the one where you go wild over a fellow who was smoking in your face, heh) and thought, "oh this guy's something ... but I don't quite know what!"
I have been very frustrated with the dialogue at Daily Kos and the other "big blogs" when it comes to diversity, a dialogue I first encountered at MyDD -- there was no connect whatsoever as to even defining the word, its value to discourse, and what obstacles there are to gaining this valuable state.
This particular post of yours is the best yet that I've read on the topic -- especially at the end where you deliberately come to no conclusion. What you have achieved, though, is to define the term itself, and you do so brilliantly, and I thank you for it.
For what it's worth, probably not much, your attending Yearly Kos made it possible for me to find your blog and read your work. It's worth a great deal to me -- I know this will sound shallow, but to me one of the prime values of diversity is that it makes life far less boring. I grew up in the Midwest and moved to NYC as soon as I could because I needed all kinds of people around me, all kinds of viewpoints and backgrounds. It physically hurt me not to have that where I grew up. To me, it's a need as strong as the need for food and water.
Your blog is now on my favorites list. I hope you write more about this -- I think you have a great deal to offer folks when it comes to understanding what diversity is and why it's important. Too many folks already think they do understand, when they don't.
Palabras por Nightprowlkitty spat forth on el 14 de Agosto, 2007 at 05:20 PM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
Thanks so much, Nightprowlkitty.
No, I'm definitely not done writing on this. I'm not sure anyone can predict where it will end, because it's been a wandering little path...but an important one. Yeah, unpredictable. Good.
Hope to get up early and do another installment en la mañana.
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 14 de Agosto, 2007 at 07:09 PM
donna darko dijo:
you're cooler than me. i guess attention isn't a big deal but it seems like something should come out of this and you didn't just go there to suffer.
the response has been shocking. these people are crazy.
Palabras por donna darko spat forth on el 15 de Agosto, 2007 at 09:59 PM
nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez dijo:
estoy de acuerdo. but...i do think some good things came out of this. i guess that is really the challenge of writing this truthfully. good things came out of it...and then, it wasn't something that i would do again. like much of life, i guess! i'm still finding out all i feel on it as i write it.
as far as Hamsher, et al, whatever! i was put off a lot by how hostile they were to the very discussion, by the quick shutdown...but you know what? i hardly care about that anymore either.
thanks for your words, donna.
Palabras por nezua limón xolagrafik-jonez spat forth on el 15 de Agosto, 2007 at 10:12 PM
NLinStPaul dijo:
I just finally had time to read some of the various blow-ups about this issue. Last weekend I was without power and then a busy work week.
But something is brewing in me as I read what I could get through this morning. Its a burgeoning thought about why so many whiteprogressives get defensive and/or try to divert the conversation.
But in order to get to that, I have to talk about my journey the last couple of months. Due to your recommendation Nez, I have started reading "The Culture of Make Believe" by Derrick Jensen. Last week I had to put the book aside because I was finding that I was getting so depressed that it was affecting my ability to function. I wrote a bit about my reactions so far in this diary titled The Transparency of Hate.
As I was reading some of the responses to the ykos diversity issues this morning, I began to wonder if waking up to these