The bastards just had to do it, I guess. They can't let us brown people start thinking we have the right to be free in this country, now can they? Still, they can not deprive Arellano of her dignity. She is more courageous than any of these people who arrested her. I'm so disgusted with this!

She is in our nation illegally, violating US law and publicly boasting about it. She was deported in 1997 and broke America's laws yet again. While it's understandable that no one would want to live in Mexico, those who wish to escape that awful country can go through the legal process to become a US citizen as millions of others have done/are doing.

Yeah, and that takes forever. Meanwhile a mother and son will disappear into an ICE detention center and God knows what will happen to them.

Karen,

It's a bit of an insult for you to address this issue from a, "...no one wants to live in Mexico"..."it's not an awful country", stance.

Surely, you are aware that this country also has illegal immigrants from Canada, Europe and other nations. It comes off as racist if you frame the illegal immigration issue as purely Mexican.

Nonetheless, Yes!, Elvira Arellano has violated US immigration laws and, Yes!, she should be punished.

The question becomes should her punishment result in her deportation? What about her child Saul's needs? Saul is a US Citizen, so should his status as a US Citizen merit any special consideration of his mother?

I've no doubt that you and I are on opposite sides of this issue, but perhaps we can agree that our immigration policy is a mess and that we need to fix such mess.

Arellano's arrest was expected, everyone predicted it, but answer this, What now? Do we deport her? I would venture that Arellano's case will now serve to provide authorities and our large American public a glimpse into what lay ahead, so Americans who are ambivalent, on the fence about the issue of illegal immigration, because they just don't relate to them and it does not affect them, they will now begin to see the human side, all drama play out on national television.

How many Arellano type of deportations can American's stomach? How long before they finally call their elected officials and say, "Okay, enough, I get it now, As an American I cannot justify the breakup of Millions of families, please let's stop this madness."?

No-one would want to live in Mexico? Wow. That's odd. My impression was more along the lines that there were plenty of folks who'd love to stay in their homes & villages rather than get treated like shit for low pay & have to deal with white supremacists (whether inspired by Lou Dobbs, KKK, MinuteKlan, ad nauseum) all the while separated from loved ones. Problem is that the US keeps embracing these economic policies that have increasingly starved out the people living in Chiapas & Oaxaca as well as countries south of the Mexican border such as Guatamala. Ever heard of NAFTA Karen? Are you familiar with how predatory conglomerates like Monsanto and Cargill have worked to wipe out the family farmers in Mexico & Central America?

"Karen,
It's a bit of an insult for you to address this issue from a, "...no one wants to live in Mexico"..."it's not an awful country", stance.
Surely, you are aware that this country also has illegal immigrants from Canada, Europe and other nations. It comes off as racist if you frame the illegal immigration issue as purely Mexican."

Indeed the "millions" of illegals from Canada, Norway, Botswana or whereever must also be deported. Especially when they openly mock American law. Bur the fact is the biggest exporter of illegals is Mexico (along with other Central & South American countries). It's the illegals themselves who are making the very obvious & clear statement on the third world nature of Mexico by "voting with their feet" to escape from can only be described as a "hell hole". The same would apply to Bangladesh, Nigeria if they bordered the US - but they do not.

If the illegals worked on the corruption, poverty and despair thats all pervasive in Mexico, they could build a country. But, truth be told, all they want is to escape it - they have no national pride or conscience.

"Elvira Arellano has violated US immigration laws and, Yes!, she should be punished."

She was deported already, but she violated sovereign US law again, believing American law doesn't apply to her. One of the laws she violated was in commiting ID theft from an American citizen, a crime that is epidemic among the illegals. (And she does it while publicy thumbing her nose at Americans and their laws.)

"How many Arellano type of deportations can American's stomach?"

All illegals need to be deported, especially those who, in addition to violating sovereign US territory, compound it with other crimes such as identity theft as did Arellano. Many Americans have lost much more to illegals - their lives.

Americans overwhelmingly want illegals out of the US. With increased and more severe punishment of those who employ illegals and a denial of welfare benefits to illegals, the illegals will self deport. Illegals who are in the US soley to collect welfare and free services or to commit crimes against Americans should obviously go first.

Karen,

Thank you writing in a style that clearly shows your dislike (hate) for Mexicans. It's clearly evident that you and I will not find common ground on this issue.

I'll just end by stating that you are wrong in stating that, "Americans overwhelmingly want illegals out of the US". Perhaps there is truth in stating that Americans want "secured borders" and an increase in "sanctions and penalties" for employers who hire illegals, but it's naive to think that stepped up efforts on those fronts are going to be the reason "millions" of undocumented workers wake up the next day and "self-deport".

Your line of; "Illegals who are in the US solely to collect welfare and free services or to commit crimes against Americans should obviously go first", demonstrates your lack of knowledge on the issue of illegal immigration, because undocumented workers are not eligible for welfare.

Sorry, people. My comment moderation is on the fritz since I upgraded and minds like Karen's seep through. But perhaps it is good for demonstrating the kind of inanity and hate that is out there, if nothing else.

Rather ironic that this happened just as Condi and pals are meeting to get their marching orders from the corporatocracy about how to make relationships between the US, Canada, and Mexico more "competitive."

I welcome the discussion, and you too Karen. Maybe it will help me to better define my thoughts.
There a few basic laws and principles that govern me and they are the same or similar to the ones on which our society was founded. The first we call today the Golden Rule, which was originally set down and codified almost 4,000 years ago by Hammurabi. I also really groove on the Declaration of Independence and its discussion of Natural Law (God's Law) and expresses that you Karen, and I, and I hope you just "might" for a moment allow the possibility that these Natural Laws might apply to everyone, including Elvira, "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Borders and governments are man made, transient, fleeting when scaled against the incomprehensible time of the universe, but the basic concepts expressed above will last. I am not versed or skilled in debate. I am too simple for that. I go by what I feel is the difference between right or wrong and my gut tells me that a mothers' (or father) innate love and attachment for their offspring, and their desire to provide what is best for them, supercedes any man made law or border. For now, I will go with the Golden Rule when making my judgements and decisions.

When I heard about this yesterday, it hit me really hard. I don't know her personally, nor have a had the pleasure of meeting her like I did with Jay J. Johnson-Castro, but I could not help but shed a tear for her or her son.

They really did learn from the civil rights movement. I find it interesting that 50 years ago people were probably using the same "she broke the law" logic about Rosa Parks when she refused to get up from her sit. However, since she is an icon, people tend to have selective amnesia, but truth be told, she was arrested for breaking the law. From the archives of The Chronicle Telegram written in Feb 08, 1957 regarding the Montgomery bus boycott.

...called for over a year they walked, or rode in car pools, in protest to riding on segregated busses whose drivers called Negro men black apes, and their women black cows. The protest started Dec. 5, 1955, when police in Montgomery arrested Mrs. ROSA PARKS for refusing to leave her seat in the segregated section of a bus so a white male passenger could sit down.

What a sad weekend. We have to stay strong with our support for the Arellano's. I can't believe anti-migrant viewpoints have even infiltrated your blog, Nezua. These people act as if we haven't heard these arguments before.

My my you've been busy this weekend, Nezua, I don't know if I'll be able to catch up.

i know, kyle. i dont mind discussion, but allowing certain voices in here would keep us mired in fundamental explanations and negativity forever. i am working on a new moderation system/trusted author system now. it may take a day or three. for now, the ones that get out there while i'm sleeping will have to get out there. i'd rather have it that way, than keep everyone moderated each time they comment. for now.

don't worry about catching up bro. you do what comes naturally, i'm happy with that. :)

Karen Schell seems to do a lot of speaking for others; claiming to know what others want and think and believe. She also seems to make a lot of unsupported claims.

I think we all get the points Ms. Schell is trying to make, and I don't think she will find much agreement here. I have to wonder what, exactly, motivated her to post here.

Hate is pained to remain in its own shell. It wants to bubble over, fester outward, replicate. That is its nature. To disturb, decay, cause pain and chaos. A viral emotional disease that lies dormant in all of us, I imagine. If K.S. does post again, I will delete it, I'm awake now. :)

Especially when they openly mock American law.

Does peeing on a police car count as mocking american law? Because if it is you can take me back to where ever the hell I come from, though I hope you have a job and some accomadation to provide for me, otherwise I'll be one of those welfare queens (and I shall wear a tiara and a dress made of sown together food stamps) everyone is always whining about anyway.

Actually, now that I think about, that's not that good an idea really.

Also, why exactly, are you trying to work up outrage at the fact that people who you have already categorized as foreign, don't give two flying hoots about american law? It's just that I have never felt a pressing need to turn off my car engine while stopped at the lights (illegal in switzerland) or cared too much when I go to buy booze from a liquor stores that, despite it being deeply illegal in Sweden, continues to unabashedly sell alchohol (and indeed, be open) after 7PM. I have, admittedly, attempted to call the police in an attempt to get them to enforce China's one child only laws enforced after I see a family with more than one child walking brazenly down the street (in full daylight no less), though mainly out of a sense of childish prankishness rather than the sense of America Patriotism that you seem to be implying would have been the appropriate and noble reason to try and have some random person arrested and their youngest children taken from them.

Maybe this is because I am a bit of an anarchist who sees teh big bag of sophistry that is US law for what it is: pigshit, and while the big rich white folk who actually make a killing (quite literally) from hiring illegal immigrants may repeatedly attempt to define that rampant sophistry as an unweilding and unbendable ruler of objective and undeniable morality (unless they disagree with it for reasons they deem valid, of course) the current concept of citizen and "illegal" is as backwards as prohibition was, and largely leads to about as many people swallowing pesticides and going blind as well.

Bur the fact is the biggest exporter of illegals is Mexico

Which is due to geography more than anything else.

Indeed, the two biggest "exporters" (a nonsensical term, not least of which because people ain't property, and they therefore haven't been subject to "exporting" since the slave trade ended, the terms are emigrate (going out) and immigrant (someone who has come in, indeed, the idea of a "second generation" or similar immigrant makes no sense if taken literally), not export or import) into america are Mexico and Canada, with cuba, haiti, and various other places in the west indies and carribbean making up the rest of the rankings ahead of south america, asia, austrolasia, africa and europe.

Now we could concoct a rather nonsensical conspiracy theory that the canadians are planning on retaking america for the british queen based on that data point.

But that would be silly.

never mind that canada was the last country to actually seriously threaten us with invasion and destruction as a sovereign nation.

And anyway I'm always some what confused as to the overall strategic point of the great mexican invasion, i mean, what? They're going to take back texas?

How does that hurt US and help THEM exactly? It's a big bowl of useless dirt and indie musicians, this is not the most worthwhile goal for a decades long plan of ethnic conquest.

To come up with a plan as cunning and sneaky as the one that is routinely posited, mexicans have to be evil geniuses, unfortunately, no evil genius would intentionally take over texas, which is a paradox if we then posit that this hoard of mexican supermen are using this diabolical plan to take over texas.

got-dam i love you R Mildred. thanks for the morning laughter.

God damn it. So disheartened to read about Elvira and Saul.

Also to read this spew from Karen, who barged into someone's living room, shouted ill-informed and poisonous hate speech at them and their guests, presumed to speak for people she does not speak for, and was received with good manners she did not earn or deserve, except as a basic human right extended to her in spite of her behavior.

I suppose she's gone now, having puked all over Nezua's rug. But Americans overwhelmingly want illegals out of the US? Wrong, Karen. Some of us overwhelmingly want justice, dignity, access, for all people. Maybe one day one thing - just one (rather than a lifetime's worth) - will happen in your life requiring you to have 1/10 the courage of Elvira Arellano.

Love the "they should go back to their country and fix the place". I guess she has never heard about Oaxaca or Veracruz or Tampico or the recent elections in Mexico and how the U.S. is the biggest IMPORTER of illegal drugs in the world, drugs and the illicit drug trade that bathes the rest of Central America and the Caribbean in blood and tears. Or about how the U.S. intervenes in places like Guatemala, causing as many as 100,000 deaths. I mean I sure the Guatemaltecos would like to stay, if it where not for those right-wing hit squads (who have yet to be brought to justice).

I'll tell you what, the U.S. declares the Monroe doctrine dead and becomes a "good neighbor" to the rest of the Americas and we will see about fixing all those places south of the border. Maybe you won't need that border fence after all. Deal?

Oh and my apologies Nez for foisting that link here, but I think its the best explanation I can come up with on the whole border fence debacle. You know me, all for the glory of Empire!

And one more thing, completly out of topic, but important. Hurricane Dean is heading for the Yucatan, as somebody who has survived several hurricanes, I know they are in for a rough time with a Cat 5 hurricane on their hands. Pray for them and their respective nations (Belize, Guatemala and Mexico). That is all...

Karen, with all due respect you are full of mierda here. You think Elvira and Saul are the illegals? You wanna know what's illegal? Violating treaty provisions 150 years ago following the Mexican War, when Latinos in what is now the Southwest were guaranteed the right to retain their property in the newly annexed territories, to celebrate their culture and hablar español in public, humiliating them and denying them the basic rights enshrined in the treaties and the laws enacted after the war.

Elvira and Saul's ancestors were freely roaming the region from California to Texas for hundreds of years before today, centuries before the Mexican War, and the treaties en vigor after that war give them rights to do so.

So no, it's not Elvira and Saul who are the illegals here. It's Anglo racists like you who are illegal squatters. We're happy to live with you here if you respect us, but for racists like you, our patience is running out fast.

Comprende señora? Le aviso llegue a entender este hecho muy rapidamente!

My heart sank when I heard the news about this. I can't believe so many people would be needed to arrest her.

Perhaps this will get the immigrant rights movement going again.

Nez:

That young lady and her son, Madonna and child, in the truest sense of the term. She emits light. May whatever God I believe in bless and keep her. Fuck the ICE.

I try to get over here every day to read, but I must admit to being engaged in some sinfulness (stuff alluded to in some e-mails about six weeks back). I'm sorry it's an addiction, hombre.

I'm probably not the first to notice it, but the Jose Padilla case, while having nothing to do with the current thread, is shaping up to be America's L'affair Dreyfus. And, as I asked, in a comment at the General's place: Where is his Emile Zola, where is his "J'accuse"?

Karen:

I am neither polite, to folks like you, nor a pacifist. You need to shut your mouth until you have some knowledge about the subject at hand--and the wisdom to make use of it. There is always hope, until the end, but you have got a mountain of stupid to climb.

El Gato:

Es verdad, word; keep on bein' real.

Where are the pro-family elements from the religious right, fighting to keep a mother and son together? I mean where's the Terry Schiavo level of attention?
Snark aside, I think this is very much a Rosa Parks for today, she was very politically aware and active before she was arrested for breaking the law, Elvira is the same. Also I hope the attention protects them from anything happening in the cells as their immediate welfare is at the mercy of some very unpleasant authoritarians.

I'm not glad she, or anyone, gets deported. And frankly I think persecuting (yes, I spelled it right) undocumented workers is immoral. That said, I look at her picture and I know it was taken at a happier time, but I can't help but feel uplifted instead of depressed by the whole of Arellano's situation. For one thing, I feel like, goddamn that kid hit the jackpot, to get to have this human being as his mother. Not everybody lucks out that way. And, I love her for putting this wrongness so front and center with her own sacrifice (although I do not presume to expect others in any situation to make sacrifices for me to admire). She is not shutting up. I hope she is the first of millions to refuse. I don't know what's the opposite of the verb "degrade", but her actions and words do that, for humanity as a whole, even those who may not technically seem to deserve it.

I, too, am wondering why so little commentary about Padilla. And I also want to say that thousands of US citizens {mostly what is called on this blog, anglo} move to Mexico permanently every year. Check the record, it's all there.
I think Elvira did violate the law and it is a bad law. Border crossing and job accepting amongst all countries signed on to NAFTA ought to be 100% open.
Yes, cut the nonsense already, make the whole damn hemisphere, not just the northern part, one really free trade zone. Free movement of all bodies as well as goods or NO FREE TRADE AT ALL.
Let us start that movement right here, right now.
Adelante Elvira!

padilla is something i've been meaning to hit for the last two days. every second extra is going to fix all the bugs you arent seeing in this blog, but padilla is going right under the radar, eh? news is on to thompson and such, the actor, and candidates de 08.

OK Nez mon, after the bugs, Nita put to bed, some doc editing, bunch of other posts, then Padilla. Forgot part 7.
I kind of meant not much Padilla comment on the blogilandia in general. I wasn't tappin' your shoulder. All the same, whatever you have to say about Jose would be good to hear.
The guy is driven mad by incarceration and probings and frequent waterings and he is now gonna be "away" as long as he breathes it seems, but here is the problem:
just what exactly did the poor muchacho do? I think he filled out a form!
He is guilty of filling in the blanks!
If there is more to this that anyone can show me, I want to hear it. I'm serious.
Maybe I am missing the whole story somehow. The story the government never really made public. That one.
If this is about filling out a form, I got the message. No more forms for me ever.

jeje...no, i get ya. but the blogs usually follow the news (not always), and the news has played it down, slipped it right under the radar is what i meant.

and by the time i get to part 7 i'm usually fried for the day! i keep waiting for things to lighten up...it's not happening.

You're right, the big news boys got Jose on and off the stage in about 3 minutes, not even a half a Warhol. I really am not able to say I understand what happened to Jose at all. Was he really an international bad boy, a blow up wannabe, a goofy revolutionary on vacation, and again, just what did he do to merit being driven insane? That part the news media DID dwell on some months ago. I thought the insane could not be tried? Oh, that was the OLD constitution!

Oh my gosh your ignorance is coming through karen.......must be a shame that it follows you everywhere and everytime you opne your mouth.
Anyways I am so sick and tired of the same damn argument all the damn time.
The truth is that as long as lazy anglos don't want to work hard or expect to get paid 100 dollars an hour there will always be a need for other people to be able to get work.
This is a racist issue because it is only mentioned when it involves Brown people. You are wrong Karen about Mexico, Mexico is a beautiful and rich in culture and history and even your aging white people retire to Mexico.Remember we were here first,you are the intruder. La Raza de Bronze is strong and has survived much and will survive.
I do not think you know the truth about anything, Mexico is the US second largest trading partner. There is billions of dollars that pass through these two countries. Why don't we embrace Mexico and help her so we can both benefit from this relationship? There is so much benefit to both countries.
As for Karen your ignorance is prevalent and it is a good inidicator of how the immigration issue will not be solved easily,we cannot even get together as people and try to find a solution.
I am in agreement with the other peeps who wrote in, we were always here and we will alway be here and it is you anglo squatters who came a destroyed all native peoples.
There is so much more to this issue that I cannot keep writing about it there would not be enough time.
"Justice for My Gente"
mhg