Being staunchly "anti-immigrant" is like being "anti-birthplace." Without them we wouldn't be here, and we can't be against them without looking self-loathing, and honestly, sort of silly.

Well, WE know that, being a nation of immigrants and all, but the Italians have been in Italy an awful long time. And none of them ever emigrated anywhere else due to poor economic conditions at home, then returned home in significant numbers to rebuild and revitalize enough that Italy is now prosperous enough to attract immigrants in large numbers from other places. That certainly never happened ...

i understand that. but they did not originate there.

i know! i know...my head is alwasy floating up in the abstracts or philosophical overviews. i do understand theri personal stances, feeling as if they have always been there and are being infiltrated.

On the subject of deciding punishments - what should be the penalty for every person who justifies horrible behavior because somebody-pissed-me-off and then expects his/her apology to mean anything at all? Anything besides "I'm so sorry I'm being confronted about this, it's inexcusable."

It's like I hear the awful thing - invoking Nazis as role models, racial slurs, paranoid ramblings of politicians who (??!) did not think anyone was paying attention - and I feel like, god DAMN it already with the craziness, and then I hear that the person/people have apologized directly after I hear what they did, and I feel like ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? You've GOT to be fucking kidding me.

I want to write my own excuse now about this comment - it's a little past my bedtime, my brain hurts a little at the end of this particular day - but really, sometimes this is as articulate as I get, bedtime or no. And I cannot seem to stop swearing to save my life, lately. I mean and I'm not even sorry about it. At least I have my not-sorry-ness going for me.

i know...my head is alwasy floating up in the abstracts or philosophical overviews. i do understand theri personal stances, feeling as if they have always been there and are being infiltrated.

Their personal stances are nothing more than sheer bigotry. These aren't refugees, these are immigrants, and they're in the country because the host country finds them useful. It is simply fucking impossible to not be a hypocrite when taking an anti-immigrant stance unless you're basically North Korean -- and who the fuck wants to invade that rock?

And, seriously, when a formerly fascist nation starts proposing fascist methodology, I think that, finally, without melodrama, the words "fascist" and "traitor" apply, completely. I mean, think of it this way: if a pol in the U.S. suggested using immigrants as slaves, wtf do you think the result would be? And wouldn't it be a *tinch* influenced by our own checkerd (read: Satanic) history?

If Italians and Germans aren't thrown into near-violent froth when someone proposes bringn' back fascism for one more go, then Europeans are just way too fucking laid back and deserve to have their economies crumble when we go.

i bathe in all your righteous furies

and did the first human beings really originate in North Korea? no wonder i never made it past 5' 6"!

Gee, Nez, nothing all that abstract about the stupidity of borders. The border idea is winding down, slowly of course, but in another 100 years it will be over.
The stupids of the world, along with their pathetic pronouncements, are contributing to making borders as popular as scabies.
Just be patient, it will end.

Oh, and meanwhile, try not to scratch!

It is sickening that Giorgio Bettio did not get ridden out of office on a rail after saying that.